Episode of the Week : The Savage Curtain
- Thread starter Botany Bay
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Help me, Spock!
4. An interesting concept that doesn't quite deliver what it teases. While I thought the characterization of Lincoln was fine, none of the other historical figures was stood out as memorable to me. And who knew that the Klingon uniform was developed centuries earlier, and by Kahless himself! He truly is revered throughout the Empire, apparently.
4. An interesting concept that doesn't quite deliver what it teases. While I thought the characterization of Lincoln was fine, none of the other historical figures was stood out as memorable to me. And who knew that the Klingon uniform was developed centuries earlier, and by Kahless himself! He truly is revered throughout the Empire, apparently.
9.
This is one of my favorite episodes of any season.
There's a ton of world building interwoven with some history to make it seem like it's all the same thing, rather than two separate things.
I like the introduction of the historical figures, although I think they pooped out a little with Ghengis Khan being a huge silent guy and Zora did seem a bit lame. But Col Green was super, he is one of my absolute favorite one off characters. I'd love to know how he fit into the war with Khan Singh and the Supermen. I like this Kahless better than any later versions. I love the Excaliban's description of him, "Kahless the Unforgettable, the Klingon who set the pattern for his planet's tyrannies." And that brings me to the Excaliban himself, another great "alien" alien.
And then on the other side, Lincoln and Surak. I liked Lincoln, but Surak was so important to what we know about Vulcan culture. This episode and maybe 2 others really are all we get besides Mr. Spock himself but so many people act like this has been around from the beginning but here it is toward the end of the 3rd season. I really liked the interchange between Spock and Surak, and that he refused to help them fight because it would be against his beliefs.
For a show that got by on so many worlds populated with aliens that looked just like people, when they did have a different kind of alien, they did a good job. I also really like the idea that these people didn't understand the notions of "good and evil" I think it's a great motivation on their part. Why wouldn't an alien culture not understand basic concepts, they would be alien to them wouldn't they? And I love the Excaliban's rebuttal of Kirk's complaints at the end.
ROCK: You are the survivors. The others have run off. It would seem that evil retreats when forcibly confronted. However, you have failed to demonstrate to me any other difference between your philosophies. Your good and your evil use the same methods, achieve the same results. Do you have an explanation?
KIRK: You established the methods and the goals.
ROCK: For you to use as you chose.
KIRK: What did you offer the others if they won?
ROCK: What they wanted most. Power.
KIRK: You offered me the lives of my crew.
ROCK: I perceive. You have won their lives.
KIRK: How many others have you done this to? What gives you the right to hand out life and death?
ROCK: The same right that brought you here. The need to know new things.
KIRK: We came in peace.
ROCK: And you may go in peace.
That really turns it on it's head, doesn't it? The Enterprise's stated goal is to seek out new life and civilizations and when they find one, they want the same thing, to learn new things but Kirk is angry because of the threat to himself and his crew. I understand the anger, but it also seems like a missed opportunity to learn more about the Excalibans. Of course, there's only 51 minutes for the episode and there wasn't going to be any follow ups, they were rare before and when this was made I think they knew there was no chance of that.
This is one of my favorite episodes of any season.
There's a ton of world building interwoven with some history to make it seem like it's all the same thing, rather than two separate things.
I like the introduction of the historical figures, although I think they pooped out a little with Ghengis Khan being a huge silent guy and Zora did seem a bit lame. But Col Green was super, he is one of my absolute favorite one off characters. I'd love to know how he fit into the war with Khan Singh and the Supermen. I like this Kahless better than any later versions. I love the Excaliban's description of him, "Kahless the Unforgettable, the Klingon who set the pattern for his planet's tyrannies." And that brings me to the Excaliban himself, another great "alien" alien.
And then on the other side, Lincoln and Surak. I liked Lincoln, but Surak was so important to what we know about Vulcan culture. This episode and maybe 2 others really are all we get besides Mr. Spock himself but so many people act like this has been around from the beginning but here it is toward the end of the 3rd season. I really liked the interchange between Spock and Surak, and that he refused to help them fight because it would be against his beliefs.
For a show that got by on so many worlds populated with aliens that looked just like people, when they did have a different kind of alien, they did a good job. I also really like the idea that these people didn't understand the notions of "good and evil" I think it's a great motivation on their part. Why wouldn't an alien culture not understand basic concepts, they would be alien to them wouldn't they? And I love the Excaliban's rebuttal of Kirk's complaints at the end.
ROCK: You are the survivors. The others have run off. It would seem that evil retreats when forcibly confronted. However, you have failed to demonstrate to me any other difference between your philosophies. Your good and your evil use the same methods, achieve the same results. Do you have an explanation?
KIRK: You established the methods and the goals.
ROCK: For you to use as you chose.
KIRK: What did you offer the others if they won?
ROCK: What they wanted most. Power.
KIRK: You offered me the lives of my crew.
ROCK: I perceive. You have won their lives.
KIRK: How many others have you done this to? What gives you the right to hand out life and death?
ROCK: The same right that brought you here. The need to know new things.
KIRK: We came in peace.
ROCK: And you may go in peace.
That really turns it on it's head, doesn't it? The Enterprise's stated goal is to seek out new life and civilizations and when they find one, they want the same thing, to learn new things but Kirk is angry because of the threat to himself and his crew. I understand the anger, but it also seems like a missed opportunity to learn more about the Excalibans. Of course, there's only 51 minutes for the episode and there wasn't going to be any follow ups, they were rare before and when this was made I think they knew there was no chance of that.
I voted 3. This is a divisive episode, perhaps second only to "The Alternative Factor" in that regard. Some guys love it, and some of us really don't. I really don't. [Marsden posted while I was writing, and I totally get what he is saying. It's not like I skip this episode...]
I don't like the way Kirk brushes off McCoy's immensely sensible advice against beaming down, when it could not be more obvious that some alien is pulling a con job.
Also, as I see it, the part that takes place down on the planet comes off as something staged for a juvenile audience. The four villain characters are simply drawn, unsubtle, and not well-motivated from a dramatic standpoint. The challenge Kirk faces is just to engage in a rumble. [Yeah, you could say the same thing about "Spectre of the Gun," but that one worked because the writing was better and the planet set was more imaginative.]
I don't like the way Kirk brushes off McCoy's immensely sensible advice against beaming down, when it could not be more obvious that some alien is pulling a con job.
Also, as I see it, the part that takes place down on the planet comes off as something staged for a juvenile audience. The four villain characters are simply drawn, unsubtle, and not well-motivated from a dramatic standpoint. The challenge Kirk faces is just to engage in a rumble. [Yeah, you could say the same thing about "Spectre of the Gun," but that one worked because the writing was better and the planet set was more imaginative.]
It's kind of a TAS-like episode, yes. It's comic-book-like. But it was a favorite of mine as a kid, and "save me...Spock" was fodder for backyard recreations with stick spears. Oh, and the portrayal of Lincoln here is by far my favorite of any Lincoln. Idealized to a T.
This was my favorite episode when I was eight. Why?... Isn't it obvious?! Action hero Abe Lincoln, the only person who was ever on Star Trek and on the penny! That just about edges out the Fonz for cool.
The rock alien is my favorite part. Colonel Green and Lincoln are also good. Nice exchange between Lincoln and Uhura.
But it gets pretty tedious on the planet.
Four, here.
But it gets pretty tedious on the planet.
Four, here.
Another favourite of mine and the traditional Arena style episode that we were given every season! Only this time Spock gets to join in the fun! I was gutted back in 1981 when the BBC omitted this episode from it's repeat run and more so when it turned up unannounced on a Saturday morning in 1982 and I didn't have the VHS machine ready and waiting! Hell I only got two thirds of it on audio cassette just about! 
JB
JB
I gave it a well earned nine!
JB
JB
I expected universal condemnation, with me reluctantly defending it, just a little bit. Marsden is right about the interesting bits. The lumpy head of the alien and silly hand motions undermine a very good idea. The strange response Kirk chooses to take toward "Lincoln" on the ship is interesting, honoring him good - naturedly knowing he's fake but not completely... would any other Captain do that ?
The "epic" fight is 8 people throwing rocks at each other from behind boulders. That's the weak, probably ridiculous part.
See the Red Dwarf parody "Meltdown " by the way...
The "epic" fight is 8 people throwing rocks at each other from behind boulders. That's the weak, probably ridiculous part.
See the Red Dwarf parody "Meltdown " by the way...
Another favourite of mine and the traditional Arena style episode that we were given every season! Only this time Spock gets to join in the fun! I was gutted back in 1981 when the BBC omitted this episode from it's repeat run and more so when it turned up unannounced on a Saturday morning in 1982 and I didn't have the VHS machine ready and waiting! Hell I only got two thirds of it on audio cassette just about!
JB
Did you audio record all the episodes when the BBC aired them?
Well I missed Where No Man Has Gone Before but I started with The Naked Time the following week! It took me from 1978-1982 to get 74 episodes, Harve! Then I started to record them on VHS with The Omega Glory in 1980!
JB
Well I missed Where No Man Has Gone Before but I started with The Naked Time the following week! It took me from 1978-1982 to get 74 episodes, Harve! Then I started to record them on VHS with The Omega Glory in 1980!
JB
Do you still have those recordings?
Before the VCR era, those audio tapes played a big role in making us love the music scores.
Yep. In grade school, before we had a VCR and because the syndicated showings were very irregular, I (audio) taped every episode that aired. Don't know where they are right now; they would be over 40 years old. I listened to them many, many times.
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