Episode of the Week: Justice

[Jeyl]

Why not? Other than Lutan they seem okay.

Like that one time when a spectator was accidentally poisoned to death and the crowd reacted by banging their sticks? I don't think I would classify a culture as "okay" when they react to a tragic death the same way they do to a rallying speech. What else are we going to expect from a culture who's celebrated customs allows for abducting people against their will?

This society does absolutely nothing to show any respect towards the Picard. It's always "Respect everything we do and you can have the vaccine" which is pretty much a trap when their ways involve kidnapping people. They're taking advantage of people who are only trying to save millions of lives and the moment Picard doesn't agree to do one stupid thing, the deal is off. Yareena doesn't do so well either when her first reaction to something inconvenient is to kill the person that didn't say or declare anything.

 

[Trekker4747]

Like that one time when a spectator was accidentally poisoned to death and the crowd reacted by banging their sticks? I don't think I would classify a culture as "okay" when they react to a tragic death the same way they do to a rallying speech.

Ever been to a football game or, really, any sporting event? Seen a bar fight? Humans can be pretty damn "barbaric" when it comes to the injury or death of strangers.

 

[Jeyl]

Ever been to a football game or, really, any sporting event? Seen a bar fight? Humans can be pretty damn "barbaric" when it comes to the injury or death of strangers.

In comparison to those real world events, no one was fighting each other during Yar's duel and everyone looked sober. This wasn't a case of crowds losing control and going nuts during an event, this was an accident that caused someone to die.

 

[MikeS]

Back to Justice...

I wasn't looking forward to seeing this one again - I last watched it a few years back and thought it terrible, definitely in my bottom five TNG. It really is amazing how HD conversion turned this into an episode I actually enjoyed! I don't know if it is simply the visuals that made it more enjoyable or that I'd been too harsh on the story in the past. The story seems more structured and the ending less abrupt than I remember.

I'm surprised no-one has spotted/mentioned what appears to be an effects error on this remaster. After the Edo lady (I forget her name) has been shown her "god" and it threatens the Enterprise, Picard asks for an emergency beam out for her. The transporter effect happens and only when it has ended does she fade away. The timing of the effect seems off to me.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Trek has never known how to show "normal" diversity. Maybe it tried a little, but the results were usually weird, everyone can see that.

Part of it was probably the studio head's fault (fear of fan reaction) and the other was the possible poor reaction of some fans (it's too different) .

Back then, Trek's idea of diversity usually showed a colony with a white male in charge, with a black adviser as the second person in charge- with a few ethnic people thrown in the background--The Ensigns of Command, The Master Piece Society, etc,

It was all politically correct casting which isn't a sin, but it could get boring real quick.

In another post I recalled how they always placed a single, cooperating Vulcan in a group full of humans, even when the situation would be absurd.

Like "The Valiant" where the kid cadets decided to take on a much larger Dominion battleship, and the one Vulcan completely goes along with plan, saying nothing at all.
He was there just for window dressing.

That said, I liked the weird laws that the Edo had--step into this zone, and the penalty is execution-- that was classic Sci Fi in my opinion.

 

[T'Girl]

Like that one time when a spectator was accidentally poisoned to death and the crowd reacted by banging their sticks?

The tapping of the sticks together is for the fighters and the contest, not the young man's death. The spectators were already tapping when the fighters first enter the room.

You might be misremembering the episode.

Here the episode in it's entirely, the fight scene starts at the thirty-five minute mark. http://ishare.rediff.com/video/entertainment/star-trek-tng-1x04-code-of-honor/2359488

This society does absolutely nothing to show any respect towards the Picard.

Really? The planetary leader himself meets with Picard personally, instead of a trade representative, or someone from their state department. Picard is merely the Captain of a ship that has pulled into their harbor.

It's always "Respect everything we do and you can have the vaccine" which is pretty much a trap when their ways involve kidnapping people. They're taking advantage of people who are only trying to save millions of lives and the moment Picard doesn't agree to do one stupid thing, the deal is off. Yareena doesn't do so well either when her first reaction to something inconvenient is to kill the person that didn't say or declare anything.

And this is what makes it a "racist" episode?

 

[Timo]

Naah. Apparently, any episode with blacks in it is racist.

...So, back to "Justice", once more. What should we make of this God thing? It fails to stop the Enterprise from arriving, and it fails to stop Picard from taking Wesley with him in the end. But it has "appeared" to the locals before, it seems to threaten our heroes when they bring a local up to orbit for a quick peek, and it briefly prevents our heroes from beaming up with Wesley, indicating it eavesdrops on just about everything our heroes do.

What are its motivations? Is it holding the locals prisoner and wants to stop the heroes from taking them to space, let alone to other stars? Why stop Wesley from leaving, then - or allow him to arrive in the first place? But if its concern is chiefly for safeguarding the local ways of life, why is it objected to our heroes bringing an Edo up to orbit to ogle God?

When God disappears, does Picard decide to evacuate the colonists in the neighboring system or not? Would there be a reason to do so?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jeyl]

Really? The planetary leader himself meets with Picard personally, instead of a trade representative, or someone from their state department.

Yeah, he truly respected the Federation's customs when Lutan kidnapped Lieutenant Yar and deliberately didn't tell Picard what he was planning on doing until much later. At least when Wesley was being held for execution it transpired on the Edos' lands.

And this is what makes it a "racist" episode?

That on it's own? No. But coupled with making their planet the only one in all of Star Trek that's inhabited by black people certainly does. Remember, Jonothan Frakes called this episode a "racist piece of sh**" episode, and the episode's original director was fired by Gene himself. If you don't think this episode was made with racist intentions, than why was the director fired?

 

[Timo]

this episode was made with racist intentions

Is that really relevant, though? An episode as completed is generally not representative of what happened behind the scenes. Many a masterpiece or average but competent work has no doubt been made with sexist intentions, with Mob money, by harassing or blackmailing an actor or an actress, or under the influence of illegal chemicals.

Labeling the episode as presented "racist" makes it just sound as if having black people on screen is an offense in its own right.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[sonak]

this episode was made with racist intentions

Is that really relevant, though? An episode as completed is generally not representative of what happened behind the scenes. Many a masterpiece or average but competent work has no doubt been made with sexist intentions, with Mob money, by harassing or blackmailing an actor or an actress, or under the influence of illegal chemicals.

Labeling the episode as presented "racist" makes it just sound as if having black people on screen is an offense in its own right.

Timo Saloniemi

that's pretty clearly not the reason he gave as to why it's racist.

 

[Timo]

But my point is that appearances matter, intent is invisible. And that's exactly what it appears like.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MikeS]

Wouldn't it be better to discuss Code Of Honour in the relevant thread and leave this one to the discussion of the sexy Edo's? Just a thought.

 

[BillJ]

Wouldn't it be better to discuss Code Of Honour in the relevant thread and leave this one to the discussion of the sexy Edo's? Just a thought.

The Edo bother me just as much as the Ba'ku do.

 

[T'Girl]

Yeah, he truly respected the Federation's customs when Lutan kidnapped Lieutenant Yar ...

In The Cloud Minders, Kirk kidnapped the High Advisor of Ardana. He was held in a sealed cavern, and was not able to leave without his captors permission.

In Bloodlines, Picard kidnapped Jason Vigo. Like Tasha Yar, Jason was kept in comfortable quarters, and not permitted to leave.

Jason: "I think I'd like to go back to the surface now."
Picard: "I think it would be better if you stayed on board the Enterprise."

Plasus, Jason and Yar were all kidnapped using a transporter. Actually Jeyl it sound like Lutan understood (and respects) the Federation's customs just fine.

But coupled with making their planet the only one in all of Star Trek that's inhabited by black people certainly does.

The only thing possibly racist there is that there should have been more episode with non-all-white guest starring casts. All Asian guest casts. All Arab guest cast. All Latin guest cast. This wouldn't have been racist, but a step in the opposite direction. Having a all Black guest cast was a good move, a positive move.

Journey's End had a large Native American actor guest cast, do you also consider it a "racist episode?"

Jonothan Frakes called this episode a "racist piece of sh**" episode

And did he say why he thought it to be "racist?"

that's pretty clearly not the reason he gave as to why it's racist.

Problem is he isn't clearly saying why he believes it to be racist, he just keeps repeating that it is.

There absolutely nothing wrong with hiring Black actors, so that's not it. The male lead was the episode's villian, and was Black, but that doesn't make it a racist episode, so that's not it. The script didn't specify Black characters, but it's the directors job to do the hiring, and again there nothing wrong with hiring Black actors, so that's not it. Other episodes with all White actors aren't singled out as racist, so all one race isn't a problem, so that's not it.

Why can't he come right out and state his reasons?

 

[Captrek]

Yeah, he truly respected the Federation's customs when Lutan kidnapped Lieutenant Yar ...

In The Cloud Minders, Kirk kidnapped the High Advisor of Ardana. He was held in a sealed cavern, and was not able to leave without his captors permission.

In Bloodlines, Picard kidnapped Jason Vigo. Like Tasha Yar, Jason was kept in comfortable quarters, and not permitted to leave.

Other TNG S1 kidnappers include the Aldeans, who are white, and the Binars, who are purple. The trait is evidently not tied to any particular skin color.