Again, to each their own. This shot is a great one both visually and in terms of intensity of the duel.
Episode IX Speculation and Discussion
- Thread starter INACTIVESamusAranX
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I love the Grievous vs Obi-Wan duel, and the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel is one of my favorite scenes in the entire saga.Thing is ... I think the OT actually had better visuals. I just find the PT duels lazy, and I don't think what they're doing is really 'visual storytelling' at all. I'm pretty sure everyone's already heard this line, but:
To me, every PT fight is just a cluster**** of distraction. Best example is Grevious vs. Obi-Wan. You start off with a cyborg fighting with four lightsabers, then we interrupt with some busy external fighting to make sure there's plenty of blaster fire in the background, then we get a chase sequence where Grevious is in some novelty craft and Obi-Wan is on the back of a huge lizard. Grevious now has another weapon so they can play around with that, Obi-Wan and Grevious fight a little on G's craft thing, then they land and we move into a kinda fist fight, and only then does Obi-Wan win.
I mean, Jesus. That fight had so little happening they had to put a chase scene in the middle! It's the most ridiculous example, but even the beloved Anakin/Obi-Wan fight is just so filled with such distractions. I get this had to take place on a lava world, but did they really need to be swinging on cables, walking along narrow pipes, or fighting on tiny moving platforms? It's like the only way they could make these fights interesting is by moving the lightsabers as fast as possible and constantly changing things up in the most over-the-top ways possible.
But there's actually one shot in this sequence I really like:
Afraid that's not a great image, but I'm talking about the few seconds they fight through a tight corridor and sparks fly out as their sabers graze the walls. The sparks and flashes make an interesting shot, and I like how the tight space makes the duel seem more claustrophobic and intense. There's also some genuine creativity here; it's simply a cool little idea that wasn't just found throwing money at a computer. It's the exact opposite of a shot like this:
I agree wholeheartedly on the dialogue.
The music? Eh. Gotta argue with you on that one.
The music is a pretty huge part of the experience of Star Wars and I believe are equally if not more important to the visuals. George Lucas was insistent of orchestral music with leitmotifs that ran through the saga that convey emotion, story, and character.
Think of the gun turret sequence where the music is so inexorably linked to the visuals, that if you didn’t know better, you wouldn’t be sure what was produced first. Think of the binary sunset, the final battle and the throne room from ANH, the asteroid field, Cloud City and (pre-SE) escape from Cloud City (particularly the track “Hyperspace” from ESB, the entire final battle in ROTJ, the pod race and Duel of the Fates from TPM, Anakin and Padme’s romance in AOTC, the opening battle, Order 66 and “Battle of the Heroes” from ROTS. That’s just from the first two trilogies! (I’m not as versed with the latest four movies and their soundtracks but I’m sure there is some iconic stuff there.) These sequences would not be the same without the music. I can listen to the music at anytime and it draws me back to the emotion and the action of the film. I watch those visuals without the music? Something is lost.
George Lucas has called the Star Wars saga basically silent movies and that if you take the dialogue away and leave the visuals and the music and you could tell the story. He’s been quoted with saying “About 90 per cent of the Star Wars films are music. It’s done in a very old-fashioned style, as silent films, so that the music kind of tells the story.”
So yeah, George Lucas and I have to disagree with you on the music playing second fiddle to the visuals. In my opinion, it’s just as, if not more so, important than the visuals.
TFA was initially scheduled for a five month shoot. (Pre Harrison Ford accident and sing that as an example because it’s Abrams.) Considering the fact that they only started shooting at the beginning of August, they’re likely not even halfway there. Some sources suggested a six month shoot for Ep IX.
Wouldn’t it be great if they split episodes nine into 2 parts.
I was accidentally misinterpreting Lucas' comments, for some reason, and stand corrected.
No, it wouldn't. It would be a terrible choice and add fuel to the fire that Star Wars is trying to co-opt the Marvel formula.
That would make AOTC even tougher to sit through, tbh. The whole last act of that film needs a total rewrite/re-recording, as the recycled TPM music sticks out like a sore thumb even through the dialogue.
You’ll notice in my list, I only mention one thing from AOTC. That was for that very reason. It’s obnoxious to be sure. The dialogue and acting in the Anakin/Padme love story is cringeworthy, but “Across the Stars” is a gorgeous if not haunting composition and makes that soundtrack memorable. Also, as someone here has mentioned previously, Williams fought Lucas after that which is why there is far less tracking in ROTS.
Both Anakin related themes in TPM and AOTC have the Imperial March in theme...to tease us. I watched both in the theater until the end of the credits and I didn't like the music as much as previous films because they didn't have the good ramp up back to the main theme at the ends....but. But both ended with the Imperial March being noticeable, and TPM ending with Vader's breathing told me exactly what George Lucas was doing, he was playing the long setup for the payoff in ROTS, which mostly worked.
I'd finished watching TPM on I think opening day. While I sort of liked the movie, something seemed wrong with it....than that last bit of the credits theme with Vader breathing...that's what sold me. "You son of a bitch George. You're going to try that aren't you"
I'd finished watching TPM on I think opening day. While I sort of liked the movie, something seemed wrong with it....than that last bit of the credits theme with Vader breathing...that's what sold me. "You son of a bitch George. You're going to try that aren't you"
And he did it himself ... two films and many years later! In a sequence largely used to reveal how much stronger he has become.
How many times do I have to type this?
Read the BTS info on that and you'll know why the music was a problem. John Williams became very frustrated at the constant changes being made to the film that he wrote a formal complaint regarding it.
The point is that people can learn from watching others, and Rey had an added advantage of actually seeing in to a Force user's mind rather than just watching and guessing.
I get that, but there's a difference between doing it right away and doing it several years later. I'm not saying OT Jedi couldn't learn through observation. I'm just saying it seemed like they'd have to develop their abilities to make that happen, just like I could watch someone do a backflip but not do one myself until I trained.
It depends on the age of the person. My young daughters certainly could.
Lol, you get my drift though?
I did get the overall point, but I don't agree. I think Rey's exposure was different, while Luke was far more stuck in his ways, as it were-"You must unlearn what you have learned." As Yoda put it. Versus Rey who has had to rely upon her instincts for her survival. As Obi-Wan would put it "This time let go of your conscience self and act on instinct."
According to Oscar Isaac, filming on Episode IX has been loser, and more improvisational than the last movies. I do find it a little odd to hear they are taking that kind of approach with this one, after they fired the original directors of Solo because they didn't like their more improvisational style.
All I can think is that Abrams must still be keeping things a more reigned in than Lord and Miller did on Solo.
All I can think is that Abrams must still be keeping things a more reigned in than Lord and Miller did on Solo.
