Episode IX Speculation and Discussion

[Kirk Prime]

I can't help your misinterpretation of events. You've decided this and we seemingly can't sway you with facts about fiction.

Even if we accept 15 years, which doesn't seem to match what was in the opening crawl, it still makes the rebellion a failure. A short break in tyranny still doesn't change that they accomplished very little and the original trilogy was a failure thanks to Abrams.

Which was established in the film. Luke died doing the most Jedi thing imaginable. He used the Force for knowledge and defense, not for attack.

He essentially played a video game and died.

And yet, we've never seen a Force Skype call or lightning like Yoda did. So, there is clearly some expansion of the lore based upon concepts Luke had, as well as in the books. So, there is a huge amount of assumption going on regarding Force ghosts.

And a huge amount of room to create more things.

My feeling is that, ‘Luke as Force Ghost’ may in fact be more powerful and utterly different to that of what ‘Force Ghostdom’ has previously entailed, based on PT and OT.

Which might be interesting if they go into the lore of Force ghosts and start explaining things about them. I doubt that happens, but it would be fascinating to see Luke disappear again, and then see what happens to him. But if all he does is reappear and do cameo things, it's really nothing special.

...So? I don't see the problem. He still died doing something heroic.
Either way It was said earlier in the film that using that kind of power could kill someone.

No he didn't. He died playing a video game, projecting a hologram. His death added nothing to the plot. If he lives, nothing changes.

 

[Tuskin38]

No he didn't.

Yes he did. He died saving the resistance, that is heroic.

If he lives, nothing changes.

Uh what? If he lives, he can keep training Rey in person, he can actually fight against the First Order.
In his death the resistance lost a potential ally.

Even if we accept 15 years, which doesn't seem to match what was in the opening crawl, it still makes the rebellion a failure. A short break in tyranny still doesn't change that they accomplished very little and the original trilogy was a failure thanks to Abrams.

30 years isn't a short time.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Yes he did. He died saving the resistance, that is heroic.

He didn't have to die for that. He should have gone with Rey in the first place. He should never have left. But to die because of a skype call? That's not heroic.

30 years isn't a short time.

Opening crawl of Episode VII establishes that Luke vanished, and the First Order rose up. Both occurred years before TFA. So this new government had a shelf life not much longer than the Articles of Confederation in the United States, or democratic territories from the former USSR that got annexed again by Russia. If you can't keep your independence, you didn't win it.

 

[Ithekro]

Star Wars: Resistance starts this Fall, so we will see where in the timeline the First Order starts to be an issues with local systems. But the way the canon is shaping up so far, the First Order hasn't been considered a threat to the Republic until it fires Starkiller at their capital planet. Leia and some of her people see the threat earlier, but no more than six years before The Force Awakens. That's roughly 25 years of peace and another 5 years of buildup with the Republic being largely at peace because the First Order was still trying to hid itself from the Republic at large so it could pull off this surprise attack with Starkiller Base than launch its fleets to secure key systems in the confusion to make themselves appear larger and more powerful than they really are.

 

[Tuskin38]

He didn't have to die for that. He should have gone with Rey in the first place. He should never have left. But to die because of a skype call? That's not heroic.

He died performing a heroic deed. That makes his death heroic.

Opening crawl of Episode VII establishes that Luke vanished, and the First Order rose up.

They rose up in near secrecy in the unknown regions. No one knew how large their forces were.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Something changed their minds, and I'd like to know what that "something" was.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. An Ep IX with Leia/Fisher will be infinitely more profitable than one with a made up story of why she isn't there. See, that was easy.

I'm expecting things completely out of left field - like Anakin had a twin sibling he never knew about. ... Rey is the grandchild of that sibling. Hey... Star Wars has had more radical retcons than that.

I'll bet this isn't far from what we'll get. Rey has to be something special, given the set-up in TFA. Perhaps Anakin and his twin brother/sister were separated largely for the same reason as Luke and Leia. Will we see a type of "all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again"?

What Rian Johnson did to Rey's character in TLJ was simply what he's done since film school: turn everything you think you know upside down, for "shock effect". It's a tired trope. I predict what was said about Rey's parentage story will be seriously retconned in IX (or we'll just find out Kylo Ren was lying to con her into joining him).

Personally, I want to see an Anakin Force Ghost confront Kylo Ren. Has Hayden Christensen been tapped, by chance?

 

[Kirk Prime]

Star Wars: Resistance starts this Fall, so we will see where in the timeline the First Order starts to be an issues with local systems. But the way the canon is shaping up so far, the First Order hasn't been considered a threat to the Republic until it fires Starkiller at their capital planet. Leia and some of her people see the threat earlier, but no more than six years before The Force Awakens. That's roughly 25 years of peace and another 5 years of buildup with the Republic being largely at peace because the First Order was still trying to hid itself from the Republic at large so it could pull off this surprise attack with Starkiller Base than launch its fleets to secure key systems in the confusion to make themselves appear larger and more powerful than they really are.

That doesn't make sense. You don't need a RESISTANCE unless there is something to resist and you are the underdog.

The main government is not the resistance. Never. Yet they existed in TFA.

He died performing a heroic deed. That makes his death heroic.

He died for no reason, playing a video game. That was not heroic.

 

[fireproof78]

He essentially played a video game and died.

No, not at all. That is a projection, a reading in to the film, rather than taking the meaning presented by the film.

And a huge amount of room to create more things.

How dare they!? How dare they create more storytelling possibilities and not confine themselves to repeating what happened before!!!? The unmitigated gall to expand upon mythology and storytelling-it simply has never been done before! /s

Seriously, Luke's death is not an issue. It is an heroic one (saving people is heroic, especially in Star Wars), it expands upon the Force and demonstrates Luke's understand of Yoda's Jedi teachings in ESB. I fail to see the conflict and see a whole lot of potential.

 

[DigificWriter]

The First Order is formed in the aftermath of the Battle of Jakku (which takes place 5 years after the Battle of Yavin and one year after the Battle of Endor), but they languish in the Unknown Regions of the galaxy for over 2 decades before emerging and rising to prominence sometime following the events chronicled in the novel Bloodline, which take place 28 years after the Battle of Yavin.

The events of Bloodline also detail the reasons and circumstances behind the formation of the Resistance, which, despite its name, is not actually resisting anything at first other than the New Republic's refusal to re-miliatarize itself.

 

[Ithekro]

The Resistance is an independent organization that is spying on the First Order and setting up resistance movements on worlds the First Order holds sway in an effort to prevent it from becoming a real threat to the galaxy at larger. The Galactic government is the New Republic, who consider the First Order to be a mixture of warmongering rumor and not worth worrying about alarm-ism.

 

[fireproof78]

The Resistance is an independent organization that is spying on the First Order and setting up resistance movements on worlds the First Order holds sway in an effort to prevent it from becoming a real threat to the galaxy at larger. The Galactic government is the New Republic, who consider the First Order to be a mixture of warmongering rumor and not worth worrying about alarm-ism.

And views people who want to attack them as hawkish and paranoid.

 

[Tuskin38]

He died for no reason, playing a video game. That was not heroic.

He died saving what was left of the goddamn Resistance. It wasn't for no reason. Jesus Christ man.
If he hadn't done what he did they would have all died.

It wasn't like a video game, the effort to project himself through the force killed him.
Last time I checked video games don't directly kill people.

 

[Ithekro]

Luke Skywalker died in a way befitting his first master, Obi-wan Kenobi....master of trolling. He managed to convince the entire First Order military that was present to focus on him, and then Kylo Ren came out to duel. Luke held them off long enough for Poe and Rey to get the rest of the Resistance off world, and out of the First Order's reach (because they still have nothing that can outrun the Millennium Falcon) He than disappears to really troll Kylo. Sure this use of the Force brings Luke to the edge of death, and Luke decides be be a peace and become one with the Force, but he managed to pull off something Kylo Ren didn't expect and saved the Resistance doing so....while also having one last moment with his sister before he died. Not only for them, but also to remember Han Solo and what he meant to both of them. Luke never attacked in the duel. He used his power to defend others and to confuse his enemies. Also imparted knowledge at Ben Solo, which may haunt the man for the rest of his days.

 

[DigificWriter]

The Resistance is an independent organization that is spying on the First Order and setting up resistance movements on worlds the First Order holds sway in an effort to prevent it from becoming a real threat to the galaxy at larger. The Galactic government is the New Republic, who consider the First Order to be a mixture of warmongering rumor and not worth worrying about alarm-ism.

This is what they ended up doing, but, as I noted, the First Order wasn't even "in the picture" yet when the Resistance was officially formed.

 

[fireproof78]

Luke ever attacked in the duel. He used his power to defend others and to confuse his enemies.

This part cannot be overstated. That is the Jedi way.

Also, small spelling critique, I think you meant "never" not "ever."

 

[Tuskin38]

This is what they ended up doing, but, as I noted, the First Order wasn't even "in the picture" yet when the Resistance was officially formed.

Leia formed the Resistance because of the First Order.

 

[saddestmoon]

The nature of the First Order mimicking the Empire, in its visual tone and references, reminds me vaguely of a planned LOTRs sequel that Tolkien apparently wrote, but was abandoned, and not formally published:

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/tolkienblog.com/books/lord-of-the-rings-sequel/amp/

The New Shadow: essentially a next generation or so after the fall of Sauron, kids (descendants) of Gondor become unhealthily interested in Sauron and his teachings, based on their own understanding / lack of understanding, of the events of The LOTRs - and through the outworkings of ‘schoolyard’ play and reinactments of past events - giving rise again to something of a new ‘Sauron-movement’, through the distorted lens of the middle earth equivalent of ‘fake news’ and inaccurate misinterpretations.

Intriguing to say the least (in terms of Tolkien’s ideas) - and despite being a completely different genre and setting, plot, etc - perhaps baring just a little resemblance to the ST (just a smidgeon).

 

[JD]

Which might be interesting if they go into the lore of Force ghosts and start explaining things about them. I doubt that happens, but it would be fascinating to see Luke disappear again, and then see what happens to him. But if all he does is reappear and do cameo things, it's really nothing special.

I can't really remember any details, but I believe one of the arcs in the final season of the first run of The Clone Wars does deal a bit with Force Ghosts. Yoda kind of goes on kind of a walkabout and encounters some different non-Jedi/Sith Force users, and I believe Force Ghosts come up somewhere along the line.

 

[Tuskin38]

He talks with Qui-Gon's spirit as well. Though I don't think he shows up in physical form.

 

[DigificWriter]

Leia formed the Resistance because of the First Order.

No. She forms the Resistance at the end of Bloodline, but the First Order has not yet emerged from the Unknown Regions at that point.

From the Wookiepedia synopsis of Bloodline:

Spoiler

Dawn of the Resistance
Later that evening, Leia meets with several New Republic officers, soldiers, and pilots including Nien Nunb, Caluan Ematt, AdmiralAckbar, Harter Kalonia, Joph, Greer, Snap Wexley, and Zari Bangel at an empty hangar bay. With the Senate unwilling to take action against threats to the New Republic, Leia tells them that she is establishing a new organization called the Resistance.

Spoiler

Lady Carise's plan is to take the Centrist worlds and join the First Order, but at this point, doing so means declaring allegiance to the old Imperial ways and waiting for the FO to make its move from the Unknown Regions back into the main inhabited portion of the galaxy.