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Episode IX Speculation and Discussion

Billie and Todd gave Lucasfilm their permission and blessing to use either CGI or archive footage to include Carrie in Episode IX, but, as I noted, the company initially ruled out using either of those options. Something changed their minds, and I'd like to know what that "something" was.
Why does it matter?

Maybe they just didn’t feel it looked good enough to carry a film beyond a few cameos or they noted the reaction to it being used in Rogue One and didn’t want Carrie Fisher’s last appearance in film to be a creature from the uncanny valley. I get the impression that she meant a lot to them as a human being, not just a character in a story. Losing her and so suddenly was a major blow.

Honestly I’d rather not have her be CG, even if it meant a better ending to the character.
 
Billie and Todd gave Lucasfilm their permission and blessing to use either CGI or archive footage to include Carrie in Episode IX, but, as I noted, the company initially ruled out using either of those options. Something changed their minds, and I'd like to know what that "something" was.

That something might have simply been Abrams. He wasn’t involved back then, so he may have brought the idea with him when he replaced the previous director.

Also LucasFilm specifically denied they were using CG, they never denied they were using archive footage.
 
That something might have simply been Abrams. He wasn’t involved back then, so he may have brought the idea with him when he replaced the previous director.

But he was involved last year when the decision was made, as he holds an active production contract with Lucasfilm for the Sequel Trilogy.

Also LucasFilm specifically denied they were using CG, they never denied they were using archive footage.

Did you not see the link I posted earlier?
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/04/14/leias-carrie-fisher-is-not-in-star-wars-episode-9
 
Considering the fact that this article was written in April 2017, The Trevorrow/Abrams switch happened in September 2017 and the cast press release has Abrams saying something along the lines of feeling as though Leia has an important part in Episode IX (don’t care enough to look it up at the moment), I think the key change here is Abrams.
 
^ Except, as I noted, Abrams was already involved, production-wise, when Lucasfilm originally ruled out the use of archive footage - as well as CGI - as a means of continuing Leia's story in Episode 9.

Maybe it is as simple as Abrams coming up with a story that was compelling enough to convince Kathleen Kennedy to reverse the company's position, but, as a fan, I'd like to know that for sure.
 
Maybe it is as simple as Abrams coming up with a story that was compelling enough to convince Kathleen Kennedy to reverse the company's position, but, as a fan, I'd like to know that for sure.

What does it really matter? Seriously? They reversed course. Welcome to the world of fiction.
 
^ Except, as I noted, Abrams was already involved, production-wise, when Lucasfilm originally ruled out the use of archive footage - as well as CGI - as a means of continuing Leia's story in Episode 9.

Maybe it is as simple as Abrams coming up with a story that was compelling enough to convince Kathleen Kennedy to reverse the company's position, but, as a fan, I'd like to know that for sure.

To be fair, while Abrams was involved as an EP, we don’t know how much control he might have had. It might have purely been in name only.

But as @BillJ suggested, not sure it really matters. We’re getting Leia in some form or another in Episode IX. Hopefully it will be worth it.
 
^ I'm not sure you're getting the point I was trying to make, which is that Abrams would have been aware of the decision to not use CGI or archive footage to include Carrie in Episode 9, even if he wasn't directly involved in the process of making that decision.

And, again, my desire to know what made the company backtrack on that decision is one borne purely of curiosity.
 
And, again, my desire to know what made the company backtrack on that decision is one borne purely of curiosity.
I would expect that having full knowledge of the reasons would involve spoilers. Ergo, we'll be more likely to learn the reasons for the decision after the film is released. It could have involved finding the right script, or finding exactly the right technique, or a combination, or other reasons entirely. It could have depended upon a rough edit actually being assembled that proved the idea would work to their satisfaction, in the absence of which there was no reason to commit publicly that it would occur.
 
^ Lucasfilm had Billie and Todd's permission to use CGI or archive footage, but decided not to go that route and spent months actively trying to build a story without Leia in it, so whatever changed their minds wasn't predicated on any of what you're speculating about.

They had both the means and permission to posthumously include Carrie in Episode 9, but initially decided to cut out her character entirely, which means that making the decision to reverse course and actually utilize archive footage of Carrie is a significant moment in the overall development life of the project and therefore a subject of curiosity (for me, anyway).
 
Given that we have no real information, and given that these writers can do what they want, including introducing new Force abilities, here's a thought...

In TLJ, we learned that somehow, even though he's dead, Yoda can actually use the Force to do things other than talk to a Force user. He was actually able to cause lightning to hit a temple and destroy it.

Of course you have the obvious question of "why doesn't Yoda just bring down the First Order?" He can't be harmed because he's dead, and he can really screw with people, but let's ignore that.

The point is that like it or not, the ability of a powerful Force user to affect the physical world after he dies exists. That was first introduced in TLJ, and by the same logic, it's also possible to introduce other things Force ghosts can do.

So picture this thought--Luke's death was quite stupid in my opinion. I feel it completely ruined TLJ for me, more so than any of the other stuff for many reasons.

But Luke was using the mental part of the Force, not the physical. When it was done, he simply disappeared into the Force, even his mechanical hand.

What if this is a previously unknown Force ability? What if Luke willed himself into the Force, and by the same token, can actually will himself back?

As long as we are speculating, I think such a move by Abrams might be a good way to win back some of the alienated fan base, especially if once Luke comes back, he does what people wanted him to do in the first place.
 
I'm expecting things completely out of left field - like Anakin had a twin sibling he never knew about. The sibling was sold to a different slave owner and separated from Anakin and his mother at some point before TPM, and Anakin never new of him/her. The sibling never became and Jedi and lived a life of slavehood. And... of course... Rey is the grandchild of that sibling. Hey... Star Wars has had more radical retcons than that. :)
 
Luke - only present as a Force ghost in a few scenes.
Leia - only present for a few scenes so she can get a proper on-screen death (possibly when the First Order destroys the Yavin 4 base used by the Resistance)
Lando - only present for a few scenes as a way to show who the "allies in the Outer Rim" actually are.

The torch has been properly passed and (minus Chewie and the droids) the old guard won't be much more than cameos going forward.
 
The above makes sense, but none of that really brings a point to this trilogy other than lessening the value of the original one.

Think about this--what is the best case scenario at the end of Episode IX?

They beat the First Order.

If that happens, then that's basically ROTJ again. So the best case has this trilogy getting things back to where they were before the trilogy started.
 
It introduced a new cast of characters who will carry the series forward from this point on.
I realized something just as I was writing the first part of my post, this being the end of the "Skywalker Saga" doesn't have to mean it's the end of the core series. With Luke dead, and Leia and Kylo Ren possibly dying here, it could just be that there won't be any Skywalkers left by end of the movie. The series could then continue on with Rey, Finn, and Poe, but with no Skywalkers around it can't really be "The Skywalker Saga" at that point.
 
So picture this thought--Luke's death was quite stupid in my opinion. I feel it completely ruined TLJ for me, more so than any of the other stuff for many reasons.
This is something that baffles me especially after your other two comments regarding Yoda and the Force powers. First of all, regardless of canocity, the ability to impact the physical realm after death is a part of the Force as a concept, dating back to ROTJ drafts, and the ROTS novel. So, this isn't as left field as many would like to believe.

Secondly, based upon your own arguments, Luke's death can't be stupid, because he can come back and still wield influence. He does what Obi-Wan does except he uses the Force for knowledge and defense, and never for attack, demonstrating a fulfillment of the Jedi's ideals around the Force. The fact that he died is insignificant because, as Yoda says, "Luminous beings we are. Not this crude matter." To put it rather bluntly, if Luke's death is stupid, then so is Obi-Wan's and Yoda's.

Think about this--what is the best case scenario at the end of Episode IX?

Nope. The best case scenario is that they make the argument for peace with the First Order, and discover a new threat that requires them to join forces in order to defeat it. The best cause is a peaceful resolution, not wholesale destruction. It also sets up a new trilogy if there is another threat to deal with. No, not the Vong.
 
^ Lucasfilm had Billie and Todd's permission to use CGI or archive footage, but decided not to go that route and spent months actively trying to build a story without Leia in it, so whatever changed their minds wasn't predicated on any of what you're speculating about.

I wouldn't call what I wrote speculation, since I wasn't actually conjecturing anything, the sole exceptions being "I would expect that having full knowledge of the reasons would involve spoilers" and that we're more likely to find out after the film is released why they changed their minds. The rest was just an indication of the range of what some of the reasons could be, without any weight attached to how likely any of it was.

But, given that you've proclaimed that "whatever changed their minds wasn't predicated on any of [that]," it's nice to read something that makes me think some of what I wrote is entirely possible.
 
I'm expecting things completely out of left field - like Anakin had a twin sibling he never knew about. The sibling was sold to a different slave owner and separated from Anakin and his mother at some point before TPM, and Anakin never new of him/her. The sibling never became and Jedi and lived a life of slavehood. And... of course... Rey is the grandchild of that sibling. Hey... Star Wars has had more radical retcons than that. :)

And there goes the potential Rey/Kylo shipping. :(

...Nope. The best case scenario is that they make the argument for peace with the First Order, and discover a new threat that requires them to join forces in order to defeat it. The best cause is a peaceful resolution, not wholesale destruction. It also sets up a new trilogy if there is another threat to deal with. No, not the Vong.

I think the trope of having two enemies join forces to fight a bigger enemy is overdone in fiction. What if they somehow overcame their differences without facing a greater outside threat?

Kor
 
I think the trope of having two enemies join forces to fight a bigger enemy is overdone in fiction. What if they somehow overcame their differences without facing a greater outside threat?
Fair enough. I'll amend my statement to say that I think they should come to a peaceful resolution prior to discovering the new threat. Largely because I think that joining forces doesn't require the First Order to undo its evil ways. Coming to a peaceful resolution can allow for their disarmament and working towards unification, and the rebuilding to be prepared for future threats.

Something like that. I haven't finished the spec script yet ;)
 
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