Episode IX Speculation and Discussion

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by INACTIVESamusAranX, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    That's good because I don't want, need, or expect great. Star Wars already had great. Don't need people constantly trying to recapture old glory.
     
  2. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    But that’s exactly what I meant when I said JJ will be in ‘giving people what they want’ mode. That’s a really great way to get good but not great.

    Although I’m not sure why you wouldn’t want great... I’d love a great Star Wars film, but I think it’s almost impossible given the current state of the franchise.
     
  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Because people striving for great set unrealistic expectations for themselves and fail at it.

    Star Wars was not meant to be great. It just ended up being so. That's why I like Abrams. He tells stories he is passionate about that can at least be good and have potential to be more. But, I don't want great to be the end goal. That's how we get so much disappointment.

    And, I think a great Star Wars film would be impossible even if Lucas was still in charge. I genuinely think Star Wars greatness has past.

    I hope to be proven wrong, but given what I see amongst fandom, and how films are being produced, with so much emphasis on nostalgia, I don't see it moving forward towards being great on its own. Much like Star Trek, Star Wars will forever live in the shadow of the greatness of its past.
     
  4. Mage

    Mage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That has more to do with expectations than what is created. The OT was a selfcontained story set over three movies with the possibility of a huge backstory. Fans created so many things in their heads, wanted so much, that it becomes impossible to cater to all of that. Mind you, I thought that the prequels had quite a few good things going for them and I like re-watching them.

    The same thing goes for the ST. Fans DEMANDED so many things, that it was impossible for these movies to deliver. No matter what they did.
     
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  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. The furor that fans create over so many details makes pleasing them a very challenging task indeed. Personally, I think it is impossible to please the fan base at all, which is why I prefer them to tell good stories within the universe. I can hold on to the other elements that I really like, such as books or video games, but they have zero bearing on the production teams and their choices.
     
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  6. Mage

    Mage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Exactly!!
     
  7. mos6507

    mos6507 Commodore Commodore

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    It's not unreasonable to expect a lot from Star Wars when you've got a company in a position to dump nearly unlimited talent and resources into the project, not to mention the cushy current state of technology. That's a far cry from the origins of Star Wars as a scrappy B-movie on steroids that stretched its modest budget and 70s tech to the breaking point.
     
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  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    That's not what fans are expecting though. They are expecting the same feel good style of movies with the warm fuzzies from the 70s.

    Unlimited? Hardly. And let's not pretend that when Lucas had nearly "unlimited resources" how well his efforts were received.

    Finally, what the companies want to make is often different than what fans expect.
     
  9. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  10. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    I’m afraid that’s exactly why it’s unreasonable to expect a lot from Star Wars. Disney is a huge company that needs to make good on the massive investment it made in Star Wars. Every movie needs to be an event. That’s indeed a far cry from the ‘scrappy B movie on steroids that stretches its modest budget ... to the breaking point’, and that’s the problem. Look at most great creative projects and you’ll find they don’t tend to arise through huge resources. Instead, it’s creative zeal.

    The original movie wasn’t designed to be a blockbuster. It happened organically when lots of very talented people came together to create something no one expected. That’s how most truly great movies come about - when a few really talented people are allowed the creative freedom to chase their own vision.

    Disney might have near unlimited resources, but they’re also in a position where that expenditure needs to be justified. The original bold creativity that made Star Wars possible is something they could never gamble on because it’s just too much of a risk. Again, this is probably why JJ was hired to do the first movie. Was this some creative kid burning to tell his own story? No. What he gave us was a relatively risk free rehash of ANH designed to get as many people in the theatres as possible.
     
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  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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  12. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think I got click baited. I don't think Daisy said what the headline claims she said. Disregard.
     
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  13. mos6507

    mos6507 Commodore Commodore

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    BS. Movies are a 100+ year old medium. They're smart enough to be able to reverse-engineer the mindset that makes things a blockbuster in the first place so they don't self-sabotage via your usual blind beancounter mentality. Worked up through Endgame with the MCU and worked up until fairly recently with Pixar. Why not Star Wars?

    And it's not like they were completely clueless. JJ opting to use some practical effects and the decision to continue the anachronistic 70s aesthetic were somewhat risky but correct decisions. It's just in the writing where they botched it.
     
  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    They're really not. If they were then they would be producing successful blockbusters that fans love day in and day out.

    But, it's an art not a science.
     
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  15. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    Was so sure someone would bring up Marvel. Thing is, Marvel was a big risk. I don’t know much about comics, but I know characters like Iron Man and Black Widow weren’t exactly the A team. They took characters plenty of people had never heard of to create a type of cinematic universe we haven’t seen before, and they usually chose directors with a strong link to the source material.

    Now look at everyone trying to copy their formula to create new cinematic universes. Isn’t working so well, and all the money in the world isn’t changing that. Originality is a hard thing to buy.

    What you usually can reverse engineer with lots of money is something good, but seldom something great. Especially when your investment is under such scrutiny.
     
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  16. mos6507

    mos6507 Commodore Commodore

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    The reason they're not isn't because it's an art, it's because it's commerce. The commerce argument is what you used as an apologia earlier, so you are now contradicting yourself. If we can argue as laymen on a forum about what constitutes a good story then you can be sure that professionals in Hollywood are far better equipped to do the same. That they fail justifies all the ridicule they get. That's the occupational hazard they assume when they enter that profession. I don't think they deserve to be coddled. Seems like certain people in Hollywood are given far too many chances to fail and fail again compared to other professions. It's far less of a meritocracy than it should be so at the very least they should suffer some rotten tomatoes being hurled at them.
     
  17. mos6507

    mos6507 Commodore Commodore

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    The best example of that is actually Guardians of the Galaxy. That's the most obscure MCU property imaginable other than maybe Howard the Duck, and to run with that, let alone with James Gunn (which of course came back around to haunt them) was a big risk.
     
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    And commerce is not an exact science either. I can't tell you how many times customers would ask me to order in specific product only to never buy it. So, consumers don't always know what they want. So, why would producers know exactly what to give them?

    I'm not coddling them. I'm not expecting perfection, or even constant competence. I certainly don't think they have access to a formula for what makes a good story when I don't even see agreement on this small forum.

    Oh, and I failed and failed again in a prior profession. So, not sure why multiple chances are a bad thing.

    They are of course going to get criticize. Go for it. But, I think the standard of expecting them to reverse engineer blockbuster formula is unreasonable, at best.
     
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  19. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Howard the Duck actually got his own movie before. It's arguably one of the only 20th century marvel movies people remember (though not for good reasons). From a certain point of view he's less obscure than Iron Man, Black Widow and (especially) Hawkeye. And there are other highly obscure marvel properties still to come (the Eternals certainly doesn't seem to have even the following that the Guardians would've had before their movie).
     
  20. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was a Lucasfilm movies as well (Howard the Duck).