Episode Eight Pre-Release Thread

[DigificWriter]

Well, we've seen a bunch of non Sith bad guys have lightsabers in the past, and even in canon Grevious liked them. I think its a bit presumptive to assume snoke won't have one, and especially to assume that Kylo only uses one because of his grandfather. At a bare minimum, as a group that seems to be in opposition to Luke Skywalker (based on what we know of Kylo betraying Luke and then just being part ofd the dark side in general), it would make sense for Snoke/Kylo to have lightsabers since, while not technically Sith, they'd use lightsabers or similar weapons to fight Jedi.

So, Snoke might not have a lightsaber, although I'd be legitimately shocked if he doesn't because a Snoke/Luke saber fight not happening is pretty unlikely in my opinion. But I definitely bet that Kylo isn't specifically using a lightsaber because of his grandfather.

Ben/Kylo using/having a saber in homage to Anakin/Vader isn't speculation; it's confirmed factual information.

Also, we saw Grievous using captured Jedi sabers purely for the physical power they provided since he was not Force-sensitive, something that has been made even clearer and more obvious with the new lore that has emerged since 2005.

The only significant non-Sith Dark Side Force-wielder we've been introduced to is Mother Talzin, and she did not use a lightsaber, which was our first explicit indicator that the use of a lightsaber is specifically a Jedi/Sith thing.

Both Ventress and Savage Opress used sabers because they had officially been taken on as Sith apprentices.

 

[Ithekro]

The Inquisitors are not Sith and they all used lightsabers in Rebels.

Also the line of Sith and Jedi is very, very old...as in Snoke. He could be some other type of Dark Sider, or the remains on a even older order of Sith than what Darth Bane kept going with the Rule of Two.

 

[JD]

Next week's Entertainment Weekly will have two different TLJ covers to go along with a story about the movie, one with Luke and one with Rey.
The preview of the cover story on EW.com says that Rey goes to Luke expecting the man from the stories she's heard, but instead finds that he's "overpowered by regret, eager to close the book on the past while living out his days on an isolated Island. It also says that Finn has become and big deal in the Resistance now, and calls Rose a "nobody".
They'll be rolling out their online coverage over 8 articles.

Gallery of new images

Luke and Rey
Definitely sounds like we'll be seeing a very different Luke Skywalker than we're used to from the other stories. The article also makes me think that rather than seeing the end of the Jedi, what we'll see instead is Rey reawkening Luke's faith in the Force and the Jedi.

Finn and Rose
When we start the movie Finn is apparently trying to leave again, but this time meeting Rose convinces him to stay in the war, which is apparently what then leads them to Canto Bight. Rian Johnson does admit in this article that there are some structural similarities to The Empire Strikes Back, but that it is "new characters, dealing with new things". Just from the bits and pieces we've gotten I can kind of see some of the similarities, but it doesn't seem to me like this won't parallel TESB quite as much as TFA paralleled A New Hope. Honestly, it sounds more like the general similarities you tend to get in most middle movies in a trilogy.

Meet the porgs and the "Caretakers" from Luke Skywalker's Jedi Island
This one reveals a bit more about the Porgs, including the fact that they get everywhere, including the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon, and gives us our first look at one of Ach-To's native aliens, the "Caretakers" a group of nun-like all female "fish-bird type aliens" who look after the structures making up the first Jedi Temple. It also talks a bit about the location we saw in the trailer with the old Jedi books.

Supreme Leader Snoke emerges with his elite Praetorian Guard
The Praetorians were inspired both by Palpatine's guards, and by Samurai.
Snoke will be in more of TLJ than he was in TFA, and we will learn some more about him, but not too much.

 

[Skywalker]

“But does he not know her?” Hamill says in his separate interview.

Damn you, Hamill! Tell us what you know!

 

[Ithekro]

Why do I get the feeling the Ach-To are semi replacements for Hoojibs.

 

[DigificWriter]

Damn you, Hamill! Tell us what you know!

Hamill is just trying to throw gasoline on a completely dead bonfire at this point, and his comments therefore mean nothing.

 

[Tuskin38]

Hamill is just trying to throw gasoline on a completely dead bonfire at this point, and his comments therefore mean nothing.

Weird, I can see that fire from here. It doesn't need any fuel.

 

[DigificWriter]

Weird, I can see that fire from here. It doesn't need any fuel.

"Only in your mind, my very young apprentice".

The "Rey Skywalker" thing was nearly DOA back in December 2015 shortly afyer TFA was released, and J.J. Abrams himself killed it entirely at Tribecca 2016, even though he later tried, unsuccessfully, to resuscitate it.

Hamill, like J.J., is waging a futile and pointless struggle to keep the "Rey Skywalker" notion 'in play' even though it's been off the board for nearly 2 years now.

 

[JD]

Even if she's not his daughter, he could still know her. One of the other theories that's floateded around is that either she was a student or is the daughter of students from Luke's Jedi Academy, either way there's still a pretty good chance he could know her.

Why do I get the feeling the Ach-To are semi replacements for Hoojibs.

I think you mean the Porgs, Ach-To is the planet.
EDIT: A new article is up on EW.com, In Her Final Role, Carrie Fisher Restores Hope For Leia Organa.
Apparently instead of coming in a taking over following the attack on the Republic, The Resistance has been left more isolated and vulnerable.
Poe has become a serogate son for Leia, and she is helping mentor him and prepare him to take a bigger leadership role.
While they didn't change the story after Carrie's death, Rian Johnson, the director of TFA, still hopes it will inspire her fans.
Oscar Isaac shared a nice story about him and Carrie:

“One of my favorite things that would happen from time to time on set would be when Carrie would sing old songs,” he says. “Whenever that would happen I would offer her my hand and we would waltz around the set – on a starship, in a Rebel base, on an alien planet, and she would sing and we would dance. So surreal and beautiful to think about now. For all of her delicious, wicked humor and fiery energy she also had such sweet grace. I miss her dearly.”

 

[WarpFactorZ]

The "Rey Skywalker" thing was nearly DOA back in December 2015 shortly afyer TFA was released, and J.J. Abrams himself killed it entirely at Tribecca 2016, even though he later tried, unsuccessfully, to resuscitate it.

Who cares what JJ says about Rey? His influence was limited to TFA. He didn't write TLJ, and he doesn't own the characters. Seems to me if Rian Johnson or Kathleen Kennedy or Mickey Mouse decide Rey is a Skywalker, it'll happen.

Remember, Darth Vader wasn't Luke's father in 1977, but he was by 1980. Ditto for Luke and Leia as siblings. Consider also that everyone seems to be saying TLJ is about family. Occam's razor?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Oscar Isaac shared a nice story about him and Carrie:

“One of my favorite things that would happen from time to time on set would be when Carrie would sing old songs,” he says. “Whenever that would happen I would offer her my hand and we would waltz around the set – on a starship, in a Rebel base, on an alien planet, and she would sing and we would dance. So surreal and beautiful to think about now. For all of her delicious, wicked humor and fiery energy she also had such sweet grace. I miss her dearly.”

That's a lovely story from Oscar about Carrie. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Tuskin38]

"Only in your mind, my very young apprentice".

The "Rey Skywalker" thing was nearly DOA back in December 2015 shortly afyer TFA was released, and J.J. Abrams himself killed it entirely at Tribecca 2016, even though he later tried, unsuccessfully, to resuscitate it.

Hamill, like J.J., is waging a futile and pointless struggle to keep the "Rey Skywalker" notion 'in play' even though it's been off the board for nearly 2 years now.

I wasn't talking about them being related, just that he knew her.

 

[DigificWriter]

Who cares what JJ says about Rey? His influence was limited to TFA. He didn't write TLJ, and he doesn't own the characters. Seems to me if Rian Johnson or Kathleen Kennedy or Mickey Mouse decide Rey is a Skywalker, it'll happen.

Remember, Darth Vader wasn't Luke's father in 1977, but he was by 1980. Ditto for Luke and Leia as siblings. Consider also that everyone seems to be saying TLJ is about family. Occam's razor?

There was nothing in ANH or TESB that prevented Lucas from "retroactively" making Vader Luke's father in TESB or Luke and Leia brother and sister in RotJ; such is not the case with TFA in regards to Rey and any possible connection - blood or otherwise - to the Skywalkers and Luke.

Even if she's not his daughter, he could still know her. One of the other theories that's floateded around is that either she was a student or is the daughter of students from Luke's Jedi Academy, either way there's still a pretty good chance he could know her.

I wasn't talking about them being related, just that he knew her.

Nope, that notion's been debunked too, by both Pablo Hidalgo and Hamill himself (which is another reason why his 'cryptic' comment can't be taken seriously).

Furthermore, Canonical information from TFA, its supplementary materials, Pablo Hidalgo, and the novel Bloodline establishes that, by the time Luke's students were murdered, Rey had been stranded on Jakku for a significant amount of time (at least a decade, IIRC).

She's not Luke's daughter, she's not Leia and Han's daughter, and Luke has no clue who she is when she shows up on Ach-To; there's a possibility that he recognizes her through the Force, but that wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary because both Snoke and Ben/Kylo did likewise even though they have no idea who sie is before they encounter her, either.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

There was nothing in ANH or TESB that prevented Lucas from "retroactively" making Vader Luke's father in TESB or Luke and Leia brother and sister in RotJ; such is not the case with TFA in regards to Rey and any possible connection - blood or otherwise - to the Skywalkers and Luke.

Forgive me for being naive, but why exactly does TFA definitively rule this out? I can't think of one thing in the film that suggest as much. In fact, the script seems to go out of its way to build up the Rey / Luke mystery.

That's the only canon source I'm aware of. As we know from Trek, what's idly discussed in production doesn't count if it doesn't make it on screen, and can be overturned later on. How "canon" is the novel you cite? If TLJ opens up with Luke crying "My long lost daughter Rey!", how many people watching the film will actually know about the book, and/or care about what truth it claimed to establish?

 

[DigificWriter]

Forgive me for being naive, but why exactly does TFA definitively rule this out? I can't think of one thing in the film that suggest as much. In fact, the script seems to go out of its way to build up the Rey / Luke mystery.

Rey has no clue who Luke is (and considered him a myth), she's a complete stranger to Han, Leia, Ben/Kylo Ren, and Maz Kanata, and the only thing that is even remotely 'connective tissue' linking her to those people is the fact that she has some kind of Force connection to the Kyber Crystal within Anakin/Luke's blue lightsaber that lets her experience visions of the past.

That's the only canon source I'm aware of. As we know from Trek, what's idly discussed in production doesn't count if it doesn't make it on screen, and can be overturned later on. How "canon" is the novel you cite? If TLJ opens up with Luke crying "My long lost daughter Rey!", how many people watching the film will actually know about the book, and/or care about what truth it claimed to establish?

With the post-Disney Lucasfilm, every novel, comic book, video game, supplementary guidebook, and behind-the-scenes statement holds the same Canonical weight as the films and television series unless it is explicitly stated otherwise, so the notion of being able to dismiss something as having Canonical significance because it wasn't shown onscreen is completely dead.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Rey has no clue who Luke is (and considered him a myth)

Rey has no clue who her parents are, either. She only knows she was abandoned at a very early age.

she's a complete stranger to Han, Leia,

Han and Leia don't know who "Rey" is. Why does that have to be her real name? Would you recognize a 19 year old whom you hadn't seen since she was 4 or 5?

Ben/Kylo Ren, and Maz Kanata,

Why should Maz know who Rey is? There's no indication that Ben would have ever met her, either, if she was abandoned some 10 years prior to the events in the film.

Besides, listen very carefully to the dialogue in the movie. Whenever there is mention of "a girl" from Jaku, Kylo Ren gets extremely interested/agitated: "WHAT GIRL?" (almost as if he knows something). Maz is also very curious about her, as if she also knows something. "Who's the girl?"

and the only thing that is even remotely 'connective tissue' linking her to those people is the fact that she has some kind of Force connection to the Kyber Crystal within Anakin/Luke's blue lightsaber that lets her experience visions of the past.

Isn't that a pretty big hint?

Look, the film was mostly written by Abrams (and Kasdan to a lesser extent), not quite literary geniuses. They can't even keep continuity from one scene to the next. e.g. Falcon escapes from Jaku, Ren's ship is nowhere to be seen, within minutes Han and Chewie show up and they're in a completely different system? And don't get me started on being able to see all the Republic worlds from one planet, which are destroyed by an energy beam that instantaneously travels from lightyears away...

So, maybe there isn't a deeper mystery here.

With the post-Disney Lucasfilm, every novel, comic book, video game, supplementary guidebook, and behind-the-scenes statement holds the same Canonical weight as the films and television series, so the notion of being able to dismiss something as having Canonical significance because it wasn't shown onscreen is completely dead.

Well, that kills all those ideas, I guess? It just seems that for the average viewing audience who isn't going to track down or care about every supplementary story, the movies should really be stand-alone.

 

[DigificWriter]

Han and Leia don't know who "Rey" is. Why does that have to be her real name? Would you recognize a 19 year old whom you hadn't seen since she was 4 or 5?

Han and Leia do not physically recognize her (something that has been confirmed/clarified by sources such as the Visual Guide and even Pablo Hidalgo and J.J. Abrams). Someone is not going to change in 15 or so years to the point that, if you saw them years later, you wouldn't be at least able to remember/see in them remnants of the person/child they used to be... which is not what happens. Han and Leia treat Rey like a complete stranger because that's what she is to them.

Besides, listen very carefully to the dialogue in the movie. Whenever there is mention of "a girl" from Jaku, Kylo Ren gets extremely interested/agitated: "WHAT GIRL?" (almost as if he knows something). Maz is also very curious about her, as if she also knows something. "Who's the girl?"

He's interested in her as "the awakening". Not only is this pretty clearly demonstrated within the film itself, it was confirmed/clarified by Pablo Hidalgo and the supplementary Visual Guide.

Isn't that a pretty big hint?

Not when the notion of a blood connection between Rey and the Skywalkers has been debunked by other sources of Canon... which it has.

Well, that kills all those ideas, I guess? It just seems that for the average viewing audience who isn't going to track down or care about every supplementary story, the movies should really be stand-alone.

The films ARE standalone; non-film Canon is still required to remain consistent with filmic Canon, however, and is not going to deliberately contradict something that was established in the films (or vice-versa). That's the entire point of creating a "unified Canon" and doing away with the "tiered Canon" system that existed prior to Disney's acquisition of Lucasfilm and that allowed the films to contradict/override other sources of Canon at will.

 

[Ithekro]

Easiest way? Rey's mother had her, Luke didn't know, and for whatever reason. Fear perhaps. Rey's mother leaves her on Jakku. Luke could be the father and not have meet Rey before. Anakin never didn't know his children had survived for about two decades. If Luke didn't even know the woman was pregnant, that could work (A Jedi fling, sort of the direction the Kenobi-Kryze great-grandchild theory starts).

 

[DigificWriter]

It's virtually impossible, given what we know, for Rey to be a "secret daughter" of Luke's without casting some seriously damaging aspersions on the character.

 

[Skywalker]

Besides, Hamill said "does he not know her?" Luke can know who Rey is without being related to her.

Let's all just stop assuming that any of us knows for a certainty what's going to happen. Because unless one of you is Rian Johnson, Kathleen Kennedy, Daisy Ridley, Mark Hamill, or any of the other cast and crew who worked on the movie, the simple truth is that you don't know, and you won't know until the movie comes out. Until then, let people speculate as they wish.