Well...the comments section does tend toward the usual drooling idiocy that any mildly critical, detached evaluation of Star Trek invariably produces from the fanboise.
Entertainment Weekly Reviews The Star Trek Movies
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Well...the comments section does tend toward the usual drooling idiocy that any mildly critical, detached evaluation of Star Trek invariably produces from the fanboise.
Interesting article.
Buulshit. Fuck him (dummy who made the video). Idiot.
Re: the OP article.
I read that a couple of days ago. I didn't care for the "damning with faint praise" element that runs through it. To me the author didn't grasp much of the context of when the film was released and how much film has changed since then.
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How...very eloquent.
Care to make a more constructive post actually explaining why you feel that way, or are we going to have to sit here and guess from that outburst?
I made my point, besides which some here have already made some of my points for me and I've already explained extensively and numerous times over the years why I can't stand JJtrek.
I like that video. I'm mixed on the JJ movies (liked the first, hated the second, not sure what to think about the third yet), but that video made some good points, and the maker found specific moments to back his points up.
Agreed. TMP I regard as an interesting failure of a movie. It's reaching for something big and it falls short. I still enjoy watching it every once in a while, though.
The 09Trek had more modest ambitions than TMP (a reboot/origin film for the TOS crew, kind of like what happens to most movie versions of TV shows), but it took some risks, largely with recasting such long-running and beloved characters. It made some mistakes, but it was generally more successful than not.
OK, off to read the EW article now...
1. How unfortunate that this needed to become a JJ Trek thread.
2. You know something strikes a nerve (the JJTrek video) when everyone comes out swinging like crazy. I'm pretty neutral about JJTrek. But, every time I see people (fans) lashing out about it, it pushes me further and further away from their platform.
Bad behavior overall.
2. You know something strikes a nerve (the JJTrek video) when everyone comes out swinging like crazy. I'm pretty neutral about JJTrek. But, every time I see people (fans) lashing out about it, it pushes me further and further away from their platform.
Bad behavior overall.
Agreed.
I thought it was a great article. Love it or hate it, TMP set its sights high. Franich called out its flaws as well as its strengths, and although I really like the movie I didn't find much to dispute. It's nice that there is enough there to support such an article; a lot of what I read now about movies is pretty thin.
TMP came along at the end of the '70s, in the waning days of a different kind of studio moviemaking. IMO if TMP failed, it was for falling short in its attempt to be an epic piece of cinema, not for being a bad setup for a franchise of movie product.
Well, the author did say this:
TMP came along at the end of the '70s, in the waning days of a different kind of studio moviemaking. IMO if TMP failed, it was for falling short in its attempt to be an epic piece of cinema, not for being a bad setup for a franchise of movie product.
Well, the author did say this:
If you want to understand everything depressing about our movie moment – how every movie is an advertisement for another movie, how the most expensive films in history have less emotional impact than a middling episode of Better Call Saul, how directors became crossing guards, how actors became spokespeople, why a Pulitzer Prize-winning author is working on the Hasbro Cinematic Universe – you have to understand Star Trek.
A nice, thoughtful article, although some of the "it's impossible to imagine what audiences made of the movie way back then" stuff made me raise an eyebrow or two.
Excuse me? It's not like we're talking about Birth of a Nation here. Many of us who first saw the movie back in in 1979 are still very much alive . . .
Excuse me? It's not like we're talking about Birth of a Nation here. Many of us who first saw the movie back in in 1979 are still very much alive . . .
Excuse me? It's not like we're talking about Birth of a Nation here. Many of us who first saw the movie back in in 1979 are still very much alive . . .
Just to play devil's advocate, though... that was almost 40 years ago. Do you actually remember your reactions *from the time*, or have your recollections been coloured by the experiences of almost forty intervening years, along with a hearty mix of nostalgia?
Fair question. But, honestly, I was well into my college years in 1979 so it's not like we're dealing with fuzzy childhood memories from when I was seven or something. I remember that evening quite vividly. Our whole college sci-fi club took a road trip to see the movie, and we discussed it at length in the days that followed. Trust me, I remember seeing it for the first time, just like I remember seeing Khan a few years later . . ..
I remember my reaction to TMP on opening day: the predominant feeling was of disappointment. While the VFX were staggering, there were long stretches where the plot was at an utter standstill. It lacked the excitement and flair of TOS.
I also found the music to be repetitive; while Goldsmith's score isn't bad, that main stanza gets reused over and over and over.
I was a very big Star Trek fan by then, so this counted as a significant event in my early teen years.
I also found the music to be repetitive; while Goldsmith's score isn't bad, that main stanza gets reused over and over and over.
I was a very big Star Trek fan by then, so this counted as a significant event in my early teen years.
I remember being both thrilled and disappointed. I knew, half an hour into the movie, that it was not going to be the kind of huge hit that Lucas and Spielberg were creating in those days.
But then, if you'd scoured the media relentlessly for every scrap of information about the movie over the previous year you knew that the whole, um, enterprise was teetering on the brink of collapse during production and post-production...
But then, if you'd scoured the media relentlessly for every scrap of information about the movie over the previous year you knew that the whole, um, enterprise was teetering on the brink of collapse during production and post-production...
My memories are different. I remember a theater full of diehard Trekkies loving every minute of it. STAR TREK was back, baby! Standing ovations!
It was only in hindsight, and upon subsequent viewings, that the movie's flaws became more glaring. And then KHAN came out and TMP's reputation took another hit, suffering in comparison to the new movie . ...
In short, it's not as though I've rewritten my original memories to bring them more in line with the current critical consensus on TMP.
It was only in hindsight, and upon subsequent viewings, that the movie's flaws became more glaring. And then KHAN came out and TMP's reputation took another hit, suffering in comparison to the new movie . ...
In short, it's not as though I've rewritten my original memories to bring them more in line with the current critical consensus on TMP.
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That article was a lot more thoughtful than I was expecting a review of TMP to be, and IMO it came across as fair and well-balanced. It also discusses some behind-the-scenes stuff I'm not sure I've heard discussed before.
IMO, TMP is ultimately a pretty bad film, but it has some great aspects, and I certainly would never fault its ambition. While I find it a bit of a trudge after repeated viewings, I think it -needs- to be seen to have a full appreciation of the franchise as well (unlike TFF, which I find eminently skippable).
I also think it's always going to be one of the most divisive of the Trek movies, because what you think of it is, IMO, inevitably a product of the kinds of movies you prefer to see, the kinds of ideas you prefer to see expressed in movies, what you think Trek (TOS in particular, obviously) should be about, etc...
IMO, TMP is ultimately a pretty bad film, but it has some great aspects, and I certainly would never fault its ambition. While I find it a bit of a trudge after repeated viewings, I think it -needs- to be seen to have a full appreciation of the franchise as well (unlike TFF, which I find eminently skippable).
I also think it's always going to be one of the most divisive of the Trek movies, because what you think of it is, IMO, inevitably a product of the kinds of movies you prefer to see, the kinds of ideas you prefer to see expressed in movies, what you think Trek (TOS in particular, obviously) should be about, etc...
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