I don't know which is worse; the idea itself, or the fact that someone who wrote something as epic as Band of Brothers came up with it, and thought it was a good idea.
For this, we can all rejoice.
Enterprise's involvement in the Earth-Romulan War
- Thread starter Servo
- Start date
I don't know which is worse; the idea itself, or the fact that someone who wrote something as epic as Band of Brothers came up with it, and thought it was a good idea.
For this, we can all rejoice.
But it's not that bad a concept at all though...I could see how something like that might work.
Thanks. I like talking about how theoretical stuff would work....its kinda odd for me cause while I love watching Trek and reading the books, I'm not the type that can quote episode titles and character quotes without having to look it up (and amongst 11 movies, 29 seasons, and oodles of (non-canon) books, its a lot to find a snippet of something). Especially when I'm still collecting all the seasons on DVD (own 19 seasons now with bids on eBay for 2 more)
Voyager seemed to move by making a series of warp speed runs, followed by periods of sublight speed, then returning to warp. The Romulan ship might have been doing the same time, exacerbated by the cloaking device the warp drive could only be run for a few hours at a time. The ship would then have to slow to sublight periodically to recharge or cool down. Then it returned to warp.
When the Commander slowed to sublight, the Enterprise would too.
The Romulan Commander timed one of these cool down cycle to coincide with the comet's position, passing through a comet's tail to attack a pursuer being an old favored tactic of the Commander.
The Romulans destroyed outposts 2,3 and 8, and then outpost 4. But not outposts 1, 5, 6 and 7. I wonder if there was more than one Romulan ship? Maybe each destroyed outpost had a single ship assigned to it's destruction. A fast out and back mission. As opposed to one ship zig zagging up and down the line of outposts, hitting some, skipping by others.
I think I am in a tiny minority of one regarding the Jendresen script. I've read it and actually quite liked it. It had a few minor flaws that could easily have been fixed with subsequent re-writes. Personally, I would rather have seen it made than what we got with the Abrams movie (although I somewhat liked it, too).
Then again, I really liked seasons 3 and 4 of Enterprise, and believe it ended far too prematurely - just as it was hitting its stride...
Then again, I really liked seasons 3 and 4 of Enterprise, and believe it ended far too prematurely - just as it was hitting its stride...
I think it could have been good if it was executed properly - but I don't think it would have been. It likely would have been more of the same we've had since TNG started, and the majority were burned out on that style of Star Trek.
I also don't like the reason for the war given in the AICN review: In ST: TB, the Romulans' are on an anti-Vulcan ethnic cleansing mission, and the war is the result of Earth refusing to turn over their planetside Vulcans for execution. This doesn't make sense - the Romulans wouldn't attack Earth, they'd attack Vulcan. The idea that the Romulans are trying to prevent the formation of the Federation (no Earth, no Federation) as seen near the end of Enterprise, makes a lot more sense.
I also don't like the reason for the war given in the AICN review: In ST: TB, the Romulans' are on an anti-Vulcan ethnic cleansing mission, and the war is the result of Earth refusing to turn over their planetside Vulcans for execution. This doesn't make sense - the Romulans wouldn't attack Earth, they'd attack Vulcan. The idea that the Romulans are trying to prevent the formation of the Federation (no Earth, no Federation) as seen near the end of Enterprise, makes a lot more sense.
The Romulans destroyed outposts 2,3 and 8, and then outpost 4. But not outposts 1, 5, 6 and 7. I wonder if there was more than one Romulan ship? Maybe each destroyed outpost had a single ship assigned to it's destruction. A fast out and back mission. As opposed to one ship zig zagging up and down the line of outposts, hitting some, skipping by others.
Maybe the UFP built seven outposts originally, but later decided to add an eigth between 3 and 4.
From what i've heard/read about the Ent Romulan War novels, they seem to be a clusterfuck of odd choices which have little bearing on what the show was actually like, especially towards the end.
Personally, I feel had we gotten 7 series, we most definitely would have seen the war through to its conclusion. Series 6 would have aired after BSG did Lay Down your Burdens, and im damned sure they would have copied them with a time jump of sorts to make it all fit into two seasons.
Personally, I feel had we gotten 7 series, we most definitely would have seen the war through to its conclusion. Series 6 would have aired after BSG did Lay Down your Burdens, and im damned sure they would have copied them with a time jump of sorts to make it all fit into two seasons.
To be fair, we really don't know how long the Earth-Romulan War lasted. The various non-canon books aside, it could have lasted only a year or two, IMO...
Berman seemed to have a reluctance about depicting war from what I remember reading about Berman's comments regarding shortening the duration of the Dominion War on DS9. The Xindi arc did last a season and I would think the Romulan War if it had been on ENT would probably do about the same, or maybe half a season.
It would be neat if they just compressed the time, turning half a season into a year and then perhaps doing a four year war in seasons five and six, leaving season seven to deal with the formation of the Federation. Or having the Romulan War miniseries be a STDVD type deal done during or for season five and just have the following season take place after the war's conclusion.
I would've loved to see the Romulan War on screen, though I doubt I would've cared for the execution. I think Berman was under the erroneous impression that a lot of Trek fans didn't care for the Romulans. I'm not one of those fans.
Would've loved to see the Romulans finally get their due as the Big Bad and not have to share the spotlight with the Klingons, Borg, or Dominion. The war could've been a good vehicle to explore Romulan culture (perhaps borrowing some things from Diane Duane) and it would be a challenge to present a war that was different than what we saw in DS9, but also find a way to deal with the 'constraints' imposed by Balance of Terror. Though I wouldn't mind a little tweaking of what Spock said if the war was portrayed well. Or Riker's comments about the Remans in Nemesis.
I wouldn't want the Romulans to be known by everyone, but I wouldn't mind using the Remans as foot soldiers. Berman, etc. did use those drone ships, which was a neat way to get around the Romulans not being seen. I would've liked to see more drone ships and Reman footsoldiers. Also, it could've been a good chance to see other subject races from the Romulan Empire.
Another benefit of the Romulan War being shown on ENT is that its doubtful that TATV would've turned out like it did.
It would be neat if they just compressed the time, turning half a season into a year and then perhaps doing a four year war in seasons five and six, leaving season seven to deal with the formation of the Federation. Or having the Romulan War miniseries be a STDVD type deal done during or for season five and just have the following season take place after the war's conclusion.
I would've loved to see the Romulan War on screen, though I doubt I would've cared for the execution. I think Berman was under the erroneous impression that a lot of Trek fans didn't care for the Romulans. I'm not one of those fans.
Would've loved to see the Romulans finally get their due as the Big Bad and not have to share the spotlight with the Klingons, Borg, or Dominion. The war could've been a good vehicle to explore Romulan culture (perhaps borrowing some things from Diane Duane) and it would be a challenge to present a war that was different than what we saw in DS9, but also find a way to deal with the 'constraints' imposed by Balance of Terror. Though I wouldn't mind a little tweaking of what Spock said if the war was portrayed well. Or Riker's comments about the Remans in Nemesis.
I wouldn't want the Romulans to be known by everyone, but I wouldn't mind using the Remans as foot soldiers. Berman, etc. did use those drone ships, which was a neat way to get around the Romulans not being seen. I would've liked to see more drone ships and Reman footsoldiers. Also, it could've been a good chance to see other subject races from the Romulan Empire.
Another benefit of the Romulan War being shown on ENT is that its doubtful that TATV would've turned out like it did.
There's something to be said about avoiding war as a theme, when so many other themes would be available to a scifi show.
In the Trek context, though, there could be another good reason to avoid having a big and impressive war with the Romulans. Namely, the war doesn't appear to impress most people in TOS or TNG - usually, the Romulans are the only ones who bother to remember it at all, and then perhaps only by virtue of the long-lived veterans still being alive.
In "Balance of Terror", an alien needs to remind the human crew of the Enterprise about the very basics of this old war. The CO seems rather ignorant as well - and later episodes make it seem that he's almost criminally ignorant of the famed Romulan capability of disguising or even negating the appearance of their ships! The Romulans come off as single-minded bigots in comparison, as the old conflict seems to personally affect and motivate them all, be it in aggression or weariness and pacifism.
If the war really was a big deal, then one would expect our human heroes and sidekicks to remember it on some level - much like the US Civil War is still remembered, or WWI is. One wouldn't expect a single bridge officer to hold a passionate view on it, but the entire shipful.
Were the "Romulan War" or "Wars" a conflict or series thereof where humans barely broke a sweat yet Romulans suffered mightily, then all we see would make perfect sense. Perhaps the war didn't actually involve Earth much - perhaps it was primarily a Romulan-Vulcan conflict where Earth mistakenly thought that the stray fire hitting her ships, outposts and colonies was deliberate aggression?
Timo Saloniemi
In the Trek context, though, there could be another good reason to avoid having a big and impressive war with the Romulans. Namely, the war doesn't appear to impress most people in TOS or TNG - usually, the Romulans are the only ones who bother to remember it at all, and then perhaps only by virtue of the long-lived veterans still being alive.
In "Balance of Terror", an alien needs to remind the human crew of the Enterprise about the very basics of this old war. The CO seems rather ignorant as well - and later episodes make it seem that he's almost criminally ignorant of the famed Romulan capability of disguising or even negating the appearance of their ships! The Romulans come off as single-minded bigots in comparison, as the old conflict seems to personally affect and motivate them all, be it in aggression or weariness and pacifism.
If the war really was a big deal, then one would expect our human heroes and sidekicks to remember it on some level - much like the US Civil War is still remembered, or WWI is. One wouldn't expect a single bridge officer to hold a passionate view on it, but the entire shipful.
Were the "Romulan War" or "Wars" a conflict or series thereof where humans barely broke a sweat yet Romulans suffered mightily, then all we see would make perfect sense. Perhaps the war didn't actually involve Earth much - perhaps it was primarily a Romulan-Vulcan conflict where Earth mistakenly thought that the stray fire hitting her ships, outposts and colonies was deliberate aggression?
Timo Saloniemi
There could have been a number of ways the Earth-Romulan War--or the Romulan Wars--could have played out, IMO.
Maybe the war started off simply between Earth and Romulus and then grew to include Vulcan, Andor, Tellar, etc. Either the Romulans attacked or threatened these other worlds too and they joined forces with Earth (a 22nd-Century parallel to the Klingons and Romulans siding with the Federation during the Dominion War perhaps?).
Or maybe the Romulans attacked other worlds--say Vulcan--first and Earth took a leadership role against what seemed like a mass Romulan invasion of local space.
There could be other scenarios of how the war began, but I tend to think in the end that it was more a case that the Romulans lost the war more so than Earth won it. Perhaps the Romulan Empire was vast, but poor and fighting an interstellar war crippled its economy, forcing it to capitulate after the Battle of Cheron. if it was a war fought on multiple fronts, even more so. Another possibility still is that the Romulans backed down after finding themselves facing an Earth-led coalition of multiple worlds on their doorstep...
Maybe the war started off simply between Earth and Romulus and then grew to include Vulcan, Andor, Tellar, etc. Either the Romulans attacked or threatened these other worlds too and they joined forces with Earth (a 22nd-Century parallel to the Klingons and Romulans siding with the Federation during the Dominion War perhaps?).
Or maybe the Romulans attacked other worlds--say Vulcan--first and Earth took a leadership role against what seemed like a mass Romulan invasion of local space.
There could be other scenarios of how the war began, but I tend to think in the end that it was more a case that the Romulans lost the war more so than Earth won it. Perhaps the Romulan Empire was vast, but poor and fighting an interstellar war crippled its economy, forcing it to capitulate after the Battle of Cheron. if it was a war fought on multiple fronts, even more so. Another possibility still is that the Romulans backed down after finding themselves facing an Earth-led coalition of multiple worlds on their doorstep...
Warning for trolling. Not to mention spamming.
It's a real shame the television series never really dealt with the subject. I think it was every Trekkies dream! And, I'm sorry, but I found the Mangels version of events to be silly and annoying for a variety of reasons, mostly because the Romulans in his world are dumb and so is everyone (save Trip).
Voyager seemed to move by making a series of warp speed runs, followed by periods of sublight speed, then returning to warp. The Romulan ship might have been doing the same time, exacerbated by the cloaking device the warp drive could only be run for a few hours at a time. The ship would then have to slow to sublight periodically to recharge or cool down. Then it returned to warp.
When the Commander slowed to sublight, the Enterprise would too.
The Romulan Commander timed one of these cool down cycle to coincide with the comet's position, passing through a comet's tail to attack a pursuer being an old favored tactic of the Commander.
The Romulans destroyed outposts 2,3 and 8, and then outpost 4. But not outposts 1, 5, 6 and 7. I wonder if there was more than one Romulan ship? Maybe each destroyed outpost had a single ship assigned to it's destruction. A fast out and back mission. As opposed to one ship zig zagging up and down the line of outposts, hitting some, skipping by others.
i think they were going to destory them but decided to head for home when enterprise showed up.
really to me the attack was more to see if the romulan empire was ready to take on the federation rather then actual declaration of war.
i suspect when it didnt work the romulans disavowed the commander and said this was the act of a renagade.
one thing about the romulan drive what scotty said had to do i think with power drive and not the drive itself.
the romulan ship had to have warp drive to cover the distances it covered.
and the no one ever saw a body never made any sense to me.. bodies would have been coming out of attacked ships.
it makes more sense to think that a coverup occured possibly driven by section 31 to hide the vulcan romulan connection.
especially with the formation of the federation happening soon..
the other interesting thing is despite this tech supposedly being unknown to the federation enterprise was able to track the romulan ship.
But Romulans in this episode demonstrated a willingness to blow up their own ships. Their self-destruct systems might be optimized for leaving no evidence whatsoever (not just erasing the bodies, but also the all-important high tech, command codes, orders, maps and so forth) - and rigged to act automatically, were the crew to become incapacitated.
An all-starship war might indeed plausibly be fought without leaving forensic evidence - at least as far as Earth's primitive forensic means were concerned. Any ground action would make it difficult for the Romulans to hide their identity, though, as this would probably be a messier, lower-tech affair without technological opportunities (or reasons) for self-destruct of materiel, let alone personnel.
And using surrogate warriors such as Remans would not help things, because then the Earthlings would simply think the Remans were the Romulans - they would not start thinking that they had never seen a Romulan. Unless they were given some special reason to think that way...
Timo Saloniemi
And what about planetary invasion battles? Unless the Romulans used mercenaries, Remans and other slave races for their Infantry the worlds would have to have been utterly nuked to oblivion for there not to be any remains for analysis.
Is it possible the Romulan Wars were entirely in space, and no planet battles?
Is it possible the Romulan Wars were entirely in space, and no planet battles?
A war with no face-to-face contact, and meeting only in deep space may work for a backstory (like in "Balance of Terror"), but it would make for one tedious TV show.
I thought Space Above and Beyond did a good job with their war that primarily took place in space, against a mysterious enemy. Though the show only lasted a season. I don't think depicting the Earth-Romulan War that way could be sustained, especially if a good number of the audience already know who the Romulans are. That being said, a space-based war would probably be a short one.
I envisioned something longer, with space and planetary battles. Timo bought up a good point about the Remans, but dialogue could easily explain that they serve the Romulans and are not the Romulans. Though it would be cool if the humans thought at first that these were Romulans. I wouldn't mind seeing other races, new and maybe some like the Orions or Nausicaans also working for the Romulans. Maybe even the Suliban. I think there are a lot of ways to depict the war without revealing the Romulans to everyone.
Though I think a small group should know, like they are doing in the Enterprise book, but keep the secret to support the war effort and the post-war peace. The identity of the Romulans could lead to divisions with the Vulcans that could split the Coalition/Federation.
I would've liked to see the war being told from Earth and Romulan, and other perspectives. In a way that might satisfy some fans who already know about the Romulans' identities. Plus it would be interesting to see the conflict from both sides. It was something that DS9 rarely did with the Dominion.
Not likely. Space is vast, travel times are extensive, and logistics would be a nightmare.I suspect the war would be a series of drawn out periods of inactivity followed by short, hot conflicts. The idea of it being entirely in space has merit, as the control of a star system would be all about who owned the high ground. I suspect the attrition of capital led to the treaty. A coalition of forces would have had the wealth to overwhelm the Roms, similar to how the West out-spent the Soviets, only in this case it would have also involved open conflict and the destruction of assets. Keep in mind, the Roms toook themselves and not much else away from Vulcan and founded a new society. It would take 100s of years to build a population base and start their Empire. Fighting multiple races at once could have over-taxed their economy.
^ ^
Reading memory Alpha among other sources indicate
The problem with ENT was Earth did not have enough ships built, which always bugged me. You could guess large parts of this war may of been cold war like, with little fighting before going all out, concluding at Cheron in 2160. I don't envision Cheron being like the final battle in DS9 when a huge taskforce smashed through the last line of defence of the Dominion fleet...
I see it as Earth & its allies being the ones facing a bigger enemy fleet but holding there own to cripple the offensive power of the Romulans, so the Romulans decide to pull back and make a treaty so not to face a possible invasion force from the Alliance fleet who of course prefer the peace route even with a possible advantage to cripple the Romulans for good.
Reading memory Alpha among other sources indicate
The problem with ENT was Earth did not have enough ships built, which always bugged me. You could guess large parts of this war may of been cold war like, with little fighting before going all out, concluding at Cheron in 2160. I don't envision Cheron being like the final battle in DS9 when a huge taskforce smashed through the last line of defence of the Dominion fleet...
I see it as Earth & its allies being the ones facing a bigger enemy fleet but holding there own to cripple the offensive power of the Romulans, so the Romulans decide to pull back and make a treaty so not to face a possible invasion force from the Alliance fleet who of course prefer the peace route even with a possible advantage to cripple the Romulans for good.
