Enterprise: stuff of legends, or ship of fools?
- Thread starter WarpFactorZ
- Start date
I like this line of thinking. You can take it a step further to point at the E-D as a dumping ground for the unwanted and "undesired" officers... like Worf (an enemy alien) and Data (the salvaged invention of an erratic scientist). Could also be the place they send aimless officers with no clear career goals, since that's one way to interpret Worf and Georid's department switches (and crusher's departure for Starfleet Medical s2).
Yeah, Riker can be one of "those officers" too. Maybe someone figured he was too accredited to remain a junior officer, but his refusal to accept a captaincy means they need somewhere to put him. Why not on the "flagship", where he's placed with the equally unambitious Picard?
All joking aside, I don't think any of the characters in the show could be considered unambitious. If we are to believe that the Enterprise-D is the flagship of the Federation and a posting on her is prestigious, then it stands to reason that one must be exceptional to achieve that.
Now Captain what's-his-name on the U.S.S. Hood, that's probably a guy who slept through his job; if we're to believe his line that he simply ferries people about from Starbase to Starbase. A true Captain Dunsail.
Now Captain what's-his-name on the U.S.S. Hood, that's probably a guy who slept through his job; if we're to believe his line that he simply ferries people about from Starbase to Starbase. A true Captain Dunsail.
I believe this is precisely the notion challenged in this thread.
Right, I'm aware of that. I don't think there's any basis for thinking otherwise. We're informed many times throughout the series that the Enterprise is the flagship and being posted on her is prestigious. It's what we're meant to believe and I don't see any reason to think the contrary.
^ I agree. In Yesterday's Enterprise it's clear that both generations consider the Enterprise a notable & fortuitous assignment. Numerous officers from within & without have espoused the claim that it's a sought after post, held by people who represent the best qualities of Starfleet. It's obvious that this was a core tenant of the show. Revisionist perspectives don't really hold up on this point imho
I always took Picard's tenure as it's captain as one which was achieved by a long time in Starfleet, having made legions of contacts in important positions, and that during his time after the Stargazer, he was free to be able to use those famously diplomatic skills for sociopolitical maneuvering into that revered an assignment. The guy seems to know e v e r y o n e.
And everyone knows him, friends, peers, allies & enemies alike. The best perspective on him would be to say that by the time he got the D, he should have already been posted as an admiral somewhere, but that THIS posting was something akin to that. He's WAY more like an admiral that any other captains ever shown in Star Trek, refined, officerial, tempered, a master statesmen
THAT'S who they wanted at the center of the banner vessel, with the historic name, an admiral with only 4 pips
I always took Picard's tenure as it's captain as one which was achieved by a long time in Starfleet, having made legions of contacts in important positions, and that during his time after the Stargazer, he was free to be able to use those famously diplomatic skills for sociopolitical maneuvering into that revered an assignment. The guy seems to know e v e r y o n e.
And everyone knows him, friends, peers, allies & enemies alike. The best perspective on him would be to say that by the time he got the D, he should have already been posted as an admiral somewhere, but that THIS posting was something akin to that. He's WAY more like an admiral that any other captains ever shown in Star Trek, refined, officerial, tempered, a master statesmen
THAT'S who they wanted at the center of the banner vessel, with the historic name, an admiral with only 4 pips
I like this 
Not that I could take the premise seriously of course, but just for the fun of it, assuming this is true, how can we explain the scenes between La Forge and ensign Gomez in Q who? He states he asked for her because she was 'the best', she confirms this, and also says that ' Everyone in class, I mean everyone, wants the Enterprise'.
Is this all a phantasy of Picard? Does Gomez really exist, and if so, did these scenes really happen like we see them? Does Gomez really believe she is the best and got the enterprise that way? Or was she singled out early, and was she in a special "class" to begin with?
(generally, would most officers on board really believe they are the elite, or would they deep down know better?)
Not that I could take the premise seriously of course, but just for the fun of it, assuming this is true, how can we explain the scenes between La Forge and ensign Gomez in Q who? He states he asked for her because she was 'the best', she confirms this, and also says that ' Everyone in class, I mean everyone, wants the Enterprise'.
Is this all a phantasy of Picard? Does Gomez really exist, and if so, did these scenes really happen like we see them? Does Gomez really believe she is the best and got the enterprise that way? Or was she singled out early, and was she in a special "class" to begin with?
(generally, would most officers on board really believe they are the elite, or would they deep down know better?)
But it's not "the flagship" as in an important command ship, it's the flagship as in a pretty show piece.
It's like the guy with two trucks, one is a bit beat up and rusty and get used for the serious jobs, and the other is his pretty truck, that he drives to the store and uses to take women on dates.
The Enterprise D is a pretty truck.
Maybe this is the answer as to what the Enterprise was doing during the Dominion War. The same thing they were doing during the Cardassian War: Exploring the unknown reaches of the Galaxy. There flagship is there to make grand first contacts and hold receptions in Ten Forward, not get blown up by some third-rate Klingon warbird in the middle of a large attack force outside of Deep Space 9. This also explains why Picard was sent to monitor the Neutral Zone rather than lead the charge against the Borg Cube.
The Enterprise is the dream ship of Starfleet cadets, because it's where you want to go if you plan on reaching 30.
Three explanations:
1. Gomez was a Q plant/fantasy, designed to maliciously stir up the morale of the E-D. After all, it was Q who decided to fu@k with the E-D at the very beginning (think: playground bully), giving them the impression they were better than they actually were. Why not continue the charade?
2. Gomez is a whack-a-doodle. In her clinically messed up mind, she believes everyone who is anyone wants to get on the E-D. Imagine a basket case pleading to the local garbage truck that their mission is of the utmost importance to humanity.
3. Gomez is a Starfleet agent whose mission is to assess the psychological state of those set to pasture on the E-D. She is tasked with smiling, nodding, and agreeing with whatever they say, so she can report back to HQ with a status report on this flaky vessel.
Perhaps. Though the instances in which we saw the Enterprise work within a fleet she and Picard were always in command, directing all the other ships. Thus making her the flagship and Picard the flag officer. Given that Starfleets primary mission is that of exploration, they wouldn't often find themselves in a position to be a literal 'flagship'. I don't know that many ships would.
Why must we assume that our concept of a flagship is analogous to theirs? Look at the word. Flag ship. All that really implies, in an institutional sense, is that it is the banner vessel. It flies the flag, symbolic of the whole. Since Starfleet claims its primary purpose is to explore, then of course it's flag ship is an exploration vessel, regardless of whatever military concerns are at hand
We don't have to simply accept that they use it colloquially, to mean their shiniest toy. It can be applied to an institutional context, because of what kind of institution it is
We don't have to simply accept that they use it colloquially, to mean their shiniest toy. It can be applied to an institutional context, because of what kind of institution it is
Ok I have to say that most of the reasoning behind the Enterprise-D not being as elite as the series claims makes no sense to me.
There's no proof a all that Picard wasn't an excellent captain during his time on Stargazer. Just because we only hear about a handful ofmissions doesn't mean there were other important ones and lots of them. The missions we heard wouldn't even cover a year's time.
There's no proof a all that Picard wasn't an excellent captain during his time on Stargazer. Just because we only hear about a handful ofmissions doesn't mean there were other important ones and lots of them. The missions we heard wouldn't even cover a year's time.
Seniority got picard there. Picard was already a legend of sorts since academy days, the heart, the fehrengi fight. All sorts of things.
A lot of other officers on other ships always seemed to timid, or to happy to go commit acts of war. Picard balanced it out. And compared to the other captains we saw sitting on the bridge of a galaxy, they all seemed to have the same traits as picard.
A lot of other officers on other ships always seemed to timid, or to happy to go commit acts of war. Picard balanced it out. And compared to the other captains we saw sitting on the bridge of a galaxy, they all seemed to have the same traits as picard.
The Op is wrong about Picard's career.
"The Battle" says the Stargazer was lost 9 years before the first season. The writer's guide said Picard became a legend during his 22 years in command of the Stargazer. That was 31 years before the first season. So Picard must have become the captain, or at least the commanding officer, of the Stargazer at a similar young age to Tryla Scott, or Kirk, or Pike, or Garth of Izar, 31 years before getting command of the Enterprise D.
"The Battle" says the Stargazer was lost 9 years before the first season. The writer's guide said Picard became a legend during his 22 years in command of the Stargazer. That was 31 years before the first season. So Picard must have become the captain, or at least the commanding officer, of the Stargazer at a similar young age to Tryla Scott, or Kirk, or Pike, or Garth of Izar, 31 years before getting command of the Enterprise D.
One thing that really struck me about the first season is that almost everyone on board the Enterprise was either a misfit of had some weird epic backstory. We know this because at a drop of a hat they would stop and give a speech about how special, unique or troubled they were.
Didn't anybody just get born, grow up, join the Academy and get assigned to this ship?
Didn't anybody just get born, grow up, join the Academy and get assigned to this ship?
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