Enterprise: stuff of legends, or ship of fools?

[Richard Baker]

I guess the big difference is that Kirk's crew had history also but they were not defined by some weird backstory like TNG crew was. You really didn't know much about Scotty, Sulu, Chekov, etc before they came on board not did you need to. They were skilled officers who did their jobs well.

 

[letsconsiderit]

Enterprise D seemed more like a place for the best to explore and grow, and its primary mission was to meet new species and explore parts of space never explored before

In certain ways Worf was like a trophy Starfleet officer. like 'we're so great we tamed a Klingon', so many of his impulses were over aggressive but he responded to the command hierarchy. Showing that the Federation works.

As to why they had families on board, their mission was about knowledge sharing and it showed other species that it was not a battleship, also the saucer section could be left outside of the big fights, so its not like they didn't put any thought into it.

Picard was a good diplomat and good in difficult situations, he was an archaeologist which again puts him in a good position for a ship which was primarily about knowledge gathering and alien relations.

Riker (as much as I hate to admit it) was a good first officer, and the comments about him not being ambitious because he turned down his own command, don't really fly because that was much later in his career on the enterprise and at that stage he realised the opportunities of exploration afforded by being placed on the enterprise. And he may have just been waiting for Picard to die or retire

Also Troi is a ridiculously useful officer to throw her on to the reject ship.

Geordi (although in the first series was at the helm and then magically became head engineer) was a brilliant engineer, and that's why Picard choose him.

and what with meeting new completely different races who mean of existence would be beyond what Starfleet had every come across you need yourself a sentient creative thinking supercomputer, aka Data, who saved that ship so many times (Night-terrors being just one example), purely because he was above and beyond the limits of humans, on any other ship Data would have been an exemplary officer but its on the Enterprise D out in the wilds of space that he really shines.

at may well be the 'shiny truck' but who doesn't want to be in the shiny truck, its a bit of an overly hopeful mission and assembly of crew (a technological enhanced Geordi, an android, a Betazoid, and a Klingon all in lead positions). but that's what you need where your meeting new species trying to get them on your side.

this is a really fun way of looking at TNG though, and there are definitely arguments to be made for it being a bit of a play-pin ship, but its the most exciting play-pin around, and its easy to see why Riker would turn down command of his own ship safely doing science missions inside already explored space.

 

[somebuddyX]

I think families on the Enterprise-D would have been fine if it had followed through on the concept of the starship going off into the unknown for an extended mission and being out of contact with anyone from the Federation. It would be like a small spacefaring colony or a generational ship. If they encounter hostiles they can separate a civilian section to jet away, but I would have given that warp engines too. I don't think it should have been making milk runs through the Federation and dropping off scientists to starbases and whatnot, but if it had done what I suggest it may not have been a very good show.

 

[Capn Nick]

Super interesting take, man! Some great points. Here are some random counter arguments:

1. Tryla Scott was a good student (it seems) and maybe a star officer, but she was a terrible captain. She almost immediately let herself get taken over by aliens. Riker and Picard weren't that stupid.

2. Riker gets unfairly hit for staying on the Enterprise. But it isn't because he doesn't have a choice. After the Borg encounter, Shelby even muses he could "have and ship in the fleet." I also don't think it is because he wants to be second fiddle. It is because, like Data, he is learning how to be a self realized person. When he starts out, as we see with Pressman, he is just driven by ambition. But working on the Enterprise makes him reconsider what he cares about. Not just a meaningless rank but being an explorer and being with his "family" on the ship. He learns that there are more important things and goes from a proficient officer to a good guy. And really, he was captain of the ship that saved Earth from the Borg. He helped Cochran fly his warp flight. Do you think it would be cooler to take the job being Captain of some ship studying spatial anomaly 18795?

3. I agree about Picard maybe, except, he is the embodiment of Federation ideals. Compare him to Kirk, Sisko or Janeway. They might all be, in their own ways, clever commanders. But they are unpredictable. Compare Picard's commitment to the Federation ideals like the Prime Directive. They know he will be representing the code of Starfleet because he lives and breathes it. It's not that he can never think outside the rules, but that he is "patriotic" to the Federation. Kirk might be a brilliant Captain, but who knows what he might do if he thinks his judgement is better than an abstract principle.

That's all I got.

 

[Noname Given]

One thing that really struck me about the first season is that almost everyone on board the Enterprise was either a misfit of had some weird epic backstory. We know this because at a drop of a hat they would stop and give a speech about how special, unique or troubled they were.

Didn't anybody just get born, grow up, join the Academy and get assigned to this ship?

I think the writer's room take was:
Writer 1: "Hey if Earth's now a Utopia (per GR); WHY would anyone leave it to go on dangerous assignments in space?"
Writer 2: "They'd have to be mentally screwed up somehow I'd imagine..."
Writer 1: "That'll work."

 

[letsconsiderit]

when you consider the narrative of TNG S01E19 Coming of Age, every one in Starfleet is a supernerd and Picard was asked to become Commandant of Starfleet Academy when Admiral Quinn thinks theirs a conspiracy going on within Starfleet, it hardly seems like the job you'd give the someone your trying to sideline.

 

[Cadet49]

USS Enterprise: stuff of legends, or ship of fools?

After considering various arguments in other threads, I formed the following hypothesis. First, I add the disclaimer that I am a dyed-in-the-wool ST fan, and have been since TOS. I offer these ideas for illuminated discussion, as a thought-provoking, alternative "what if" scenario for the TNG we know and love...

I submit: Commanding the Enterprise-D was not designed to be a reward for an exceptional captain. The project was largely deemed a failure from the start. The history that unfolded in TNG defied the odds and was a dark horse in the annals of Starfleet. Allow me to elaborate.

First, the name "Enterprise" had long since lost any meaning in Starfleet. The 1701-C disappeared over 20 years prior to the christening of the vessel, with no obvious pivotal role in history. The 1701-B likewise had no apparent record of note. And the rich history of Kirk's escapades was almost a century beforehand. What significance did "Enterprise" have, particularly as a "flagship"? This was a trial run of a largely untested piece of hardware running untested software. Perhaps it should have been called the 1701-Beta...

Second, the person chosen as Captain -- one Jean Luc-Picard, a reckless twit who almost got himself killed at the academy -- had spent over 25 years serving on a single, unremarkable ship: the Stargazer. He haphazardly rose to command by pure coincidence -- everyone was killed -- and captained the ship for almost a decade more. Although perhaps "seasoned", he was hardly the type one would expect to helm the leading ship of the Federation. What about Captain Tryla Scott, the youngest ever in Starfleet history to achieve the rank? Why not give her the premiere assignment in the fleet? Why relegate it to a proverbially washed-up one-hit wonder?

Third: we are introduced to the mission (in Encounter at Farpoint) by Picard's personal log: i.e. his impression of the importance of his assignment. Hardly an unbiased position!

Furthermore, assigning Riker as the XO. Here's an officer who desires nothing more than second best: the command of the Enterprise. Sure, he can use this podunk assignment as a much needed stepping stone to launch his illustrious and legendary Starfleet career and venture into uncharted space, but instead he's content to be second fiddle to Captain Once-Was for almost two decades.

Lastly: families on board. How many flagships and exploratory vessels going into uncharted territories have families on board? Face it: Picard was duped by top brass due to his desire to be anywhere else but in the center seat of the Stargazer. The Enterprise wasn't the flagship of the Federation -- it was a weather balloon to test the climate of Starfleet tech and relations, ultimately to yield new designs and commanded by competent staff. Picard et al. succeeded wildly against all odds.

Discuss!!

I always thought it was a mistake in Season 1 to portray Picard's former command as being Kirk-era ship with century old tech, an "overworked, underpowered vessel, always on the verge of flying apart at the seams." (TNG: "Relics"), completely antiquated by what we were seeing in the Ent-D in the previous episodes. It might be fine as a first command, but how was it that Picard got stuck with what was basically a scout ship for 22 years, sent out alone into the depths of deep space??? Perhaps the ship was actually upgraded with modern tech under its antiquated, pre-century exterior, but Wouldn't the fleet eventually give the guy an upgrade in vessels before the Ent-D???

 

[Timo]

It might be fine as a first command, but how was it that Picard got stuck with what was basically a scout ship for 22 years, sent out alone into the depths of deep space???

This never happened.

That is, there was no onscreen mention of such a thing happening. The Stargazer was the first ship Picard served aboard as a captain/Captain ("Relics"), but there was never a length of service mentioned, and certainly no indication that it would have been an exceptional length. For all we know, Picard became the skipper of that ship in 2353, losing her almost immediately in 2354, and exactly because she was hopelessly outdated for her job.

It just happens that the Stargazer entry at Memory Alpha repeats baseless supposition from offscreen sources, such as a 2333 date for his heroics wherein he temporarily stood in for an incapacitated captain. We have no idea what ranks Picard held aboard the ship before becoming her captain/Captain; perhaps he did a short stint there as Ensign, and then returned to the ship two decades later, perhaps he didn't.

We also have no idea when Picard got promoted to Captain rank. Some think the talk in "Conspiracy" about Tryla Scott and somebody else present making the rank very quickly should be taken to indicate that Picard made the rank quickly, but this is not supported elsewhere, and it's Picard himself mentioning the good performance of somebody present - he wouldn't be that full of himself, probably.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Brainsucker]

I don't think that choosing Picard as the captain of the best starship in the fleet was a wrong decision. An important starship that greatly outperform all the ships in the fleet need a more mature captain. Because these people tend to be wiser, cool headed, and know what they do out there (thanks to their decade experience in commanding starships).

 

[topcat]

At the time there were only 6 galaxy class ships, the D was the bestest of them all. Everything was leaps and bounds beyond the other 5, even though they had the same basic blueprint.
The flag ship of the federation is the ship you send when trouble strikes, or when you REEEELY need to impress someone with your power. Hence, you DO NOT put the dumbest moron in charge. Or the dumbest people on it.
All the time in the first 4 seasons I remember many comments on the show how every new character "hoped" to live up to the reputation of the enterprise "bright, smart, bold, clever Starfleet personel out to do good while wagging the flag"

 

[2takesfrakes]

When Dee turns to her Imzadi and says, "on this ship - anything can happen," in INSURRECTION, I always break out in my big ol' Tom Sawyer grin! She was on the "E," at the time, of course, but you know she was referring more to the collection of officers all under the same roof, allowing for all these dreams and wishes to come true. That's really how I feel about the 1701-D, though ... you know? That boarding her just opens so many doors to all kinds of possibilities. She's the stuff of legend, that's for certain.