DumbDumb2007
Commander
Was it ever mentioned on Enterprise if the NX-01 ever used Lithium or Dilithium Crystals ?
Enterprise NX 01, Ddid it use Dilithium Crystals ?
- Thread starter DumbDumb2007
- Start date
Wasn't it mentioned that the warp core was lined with Dilithium much like the TMP drive?
In the Season 1 episode "Oasis" there is some mention of dilithium, however it's not stated what it's used for. If you want my personal view of things, I'd say that the NX-01 does use diluthium, but not for warp speed. Possibly they used it for something else until about the mid 23rd Century, which would be consistant with continuity of TOSs second pilot and a few episodes of the first season.
In "Cold Front", a visiting alien queries Trip about the properties of the dilithium matrix in the warp core. Since Trip doesn't go utterly "Huh?", we either have to believe that dilithium plays a role in the warp propulsion of NX-01, or might wish to think that Trip is extremely polite, or unwilling to show his ignorance, or loathe to discuss the secrets of Earth technology with aliens...
Based on this alone, the dilithium might have uses different from the familiar 23rd or 24th century ones. But in "Bound", we get some pretty explicit dialogue, as one of the Orion girls pumps information from one of Tucker's crewmen:
Again, either NX-01 dilithium is pretty much the same as TNG dilithium (and thus probably TOS dilithium was the same in the intervening period), or then this Kelby guy is smarter than we think and automatically spews disinformation to potential enemies.
Timo Saloniemi
Based on this alone, the dilithium might have uses different from the familiar 23rd or 24th century ones. But in "Bound", we get some pretty explicit dialogue, as one of the Orion girls pumps information from one of Tucker's crewmen:
Again, either NX-01 dilithium is pretty much the same as TNG dilithium (and thus probably TOS dilithium was the same in the intervening period), or then this Kelby guy is smarter than we think and automatically spews disinformation to potential enemies.
Timo Saloniemi
Re: Enterprise NX 01, Did it use Dilithium Crystals ?
They pretty much admitted Lithium was a mistake during those early TOS episodes. It's real element with undisputable qualities, that definately wouldn't withstand matter and anti-matter particles colliding. So the writers came up with the fictional dilithium, the properties of which can fit whatever science they make up.
Interesting development between TOS and TNG, fractures in the crystals can be mended inside the warp core. It's a topic of conversation between Scotty and Geordi in Relics. So presumably in ENT's era (TOS too), they must constantly need to replace dilithium and get through a lot of their supply.
They pretty much admitted Lithium was a mistake during those early TOS episodes. It's real element with undisputable qualities, that definately wouldn't withstand matter and anti-matter particles colliding. So the writers came up with the fictional dilithium, the properties of which can fit whatever science they make up.
Interesting development between TOS and TNG, fractures in the crystals can be mended inside the warp core. It's a topic of conversation between Scotty and Geordi in Relics. So presumably in ENT's era (TOS too), they must constantly need to replace dilithium and get through a lot of their supply.
I'd like to reinforce the comment here -- going from statements in the Original Series it's not clear that dilithium has any special properties with respect to warp speed. It's clearly important for power (see about half the dialogue that isn't about Lazarus falling down in `The Alternative Factor') and the ship can't reach warp speed without it (see `Elaan of Troyius'), but it seems to be more a power regulator than anything else.
Which is pretty much how it is described in TNG as well, really.
I mean, some aspects of the later technobabble would have us believe that warp plasma itself has magic properties, but the TNG TM babble just suggests that it is highly energetic ordinary plasma, and that the magic takes place only after the plasma hits the warp coils. And dilithium is but one way to create highly energetic plasma from antimatter annihilation, in a scientifically semi-plausible manner.
As for lithium vs. dilithium, I don't think we have to assume there is any "vs." there. We learn in TNG and VOY that there are other substances with "lithium" in their name, associated with warp power: trilithium and paralithium are mentioned. We might deduce that these are compounds or structures that all feature lithium, each in a different way. But even if we don't go quite that far, we can quite safely assume that "lithium" is a catchall name for the family of materials that includes dilithium, paralithium, trilithium and possible others. Scotty would simply be a bit less than exact in his use of language in the pilot episode - and would get dressed down by Kirk or Spock for it, thereafter sticking to "dilithium".
(We might also speculate that the TOS ship had robust engines capable of using many different kinds of lithium crystals, whereas the builders of NX-01 did not yet know how to make a "multifuel" engine, and those of NCC-1701-D had already decided to concentrate on dilithium and optimize that to the extreme.)
Again, the TNG TM seems to make excellent lemonade out of the original material. Dilithium is indeed described as the shorthand name of a chemical compound that contains lithium, while it's left deliciously unclear whether this substance as such already has magic properties or not.
Timo Saloniemi
I mean, some aspects of the later technobabble would have us believe that warp plasma itself has magic properties, but the TNG TM babble just suggests that it is highly energetic ordinary plasma, and that the magic takes place only after the plasma hits the warp coils. And dilithium is but one way to create highly energetic plasma from antimatter annihilation, in a scientifically semi-plausible manner.
As for lithium vs. dilithium, I don't think we have to assume there is any "vs." there. We learn in TNG and VOY that there are other substances with "lithium" in their name, associated with warp power: trilithium and paralithium are mentioned. We might deduce that these are compounds or structures that all feature lithium, each in a different way. But even if we don't go quite that far, we can quite safely assume that "lithium" is a catchall name for the family of materials that includes dilithium, paralithium, trilithium and possible others. Scotty would simply be a bit less than exact in his use of language in the pilot episode - and would get dressed down by Kirk or Spock for it, thereafter sticking to "dilithium".
(We might also speculate that the TOS ship had robust engines capable of using many different kinds of lithium crystals, whereas the builders of NX-01 did not yet know how to make a "multifuel" engine, and those of NCC-1701-D had already decided to concentrate on dilithium and optimize that to the extreme.)
Again, the TNG TM seems to make excellent lemonade out of the original material. Dilithium is indeed described as the shorthand name of a chemical compound that contains lithium, while it's left deliciously unclear whether this substance as such already has magic properties or not.
Timo Saloniemi
:thumbsup:
DumbDumb2007
Commander
They should switch to premuim lithium crystals from regular.
Sensors indicate that their primitive design is using Folgers Crystals, Captain. Sensors also indicate that Chief Engineer Valdez is keeping a Colombian Burro in their engine room.
I seem to be late to the game but...
Right now I am in the process of moving so I do not have access to all my notes (or I could back up everything with dialog references because I know how you folks require it) so please forgive me if I don't site my sources. (I have written and illustrated an entire new section on the NX-01 warp systems for my website. However I haven’t been able to find the time to finish laying the pages out. Much of what I am about to say comes directly from that research.)
First off:
Trip and Archer refer to a dilithium matrix as a power source several times during the show's run.
Phlox actually references the dilithium crystals in "Doctor's Orders" when he is restarting the engines.
Second:
Since this is pre-TOS, dilithium crystals are no doubt naturally derived (in the TNG era they were synthetic) so any references to TNG era would need to be mindful of that and the fact the purity of the crystal is much better. Both would change the reaction components somewhat. We also have several mentions of the NX-01 matter/anti-matter injectors which would indicate that Starfleet's warp technology used something to control the reaction. Through out the shows run we are also given several references to power distribution and control manifold which would also lead one to believe the core was utilizing the crystals to control the plasma generation.
But it also stands to mention that we are never given a clear idea of how the reactor functions or what the underlying technology is. We can only hypothesis from the information given by Trip in "Cold Front" how the damn thing works. If I was to wager a guess based on the available information...
Slush deuterium and anti-deuterium are fed into magnetic constrictors through four large conditioner/injectors located port and starboard aft. Those magnetic injectors then constrict and feed the fuel streams into five warp injectors located port and starboard forward. Those streams are then fed into the dilithium matrix through conduits located in the forward stabilization struts on each side of the core. The dilithium matrix is made up of five separate crystals in individual articulation frames within the middle of the warp core. Since we are dealing with naturally occurring impure crystals, about 30% of the reactants escape the crystals unused. The two swirling “tanks” located along the outer edge contain the remaining reactants allowing them to finish annihilating one another and the resulting plasma is siphoned off by two sets of magnetic wave guides located on the top and bottom of the reactor housing (or those flashing lights in the raised box sections). The warp plasma is then mixed in the aft tank to minimize frequency shifts and then pumped by magnetic conduits to the first stage plasma accelerator on B Deck.
Hope that helps… makes sense… or whatever. I tend to give more information than people need.
But my website will have pretty pictures detailing all of that with a much more comprehensive explanation. However, this is just my take on it. Other people might see it another way entirely. 
Right now I am in the process of moving so I do not have access to all my notes (or I could back up everything with dialog references because I know how you folks require it) so please forgive me if I don't site my sources. (I have written and illustrated an entire new section on the NX-01 warp systems for my website. However I haven’t been able to find the time to finish laying the pages out. Much of what I am about to say comes directly from that research.)
First off:
Trip and Archer refer to a dilithium matrix as a power source several times during the show's run.
Phlox actually references the dilithium crystals in "Doctor's Orders" when he is restarting the engines.
Second:
Since this is pre-TOS, dilithium crystals are no doubt naturally derived (in the TNG era they were synthetic) so any references to TNG era would need to be mindful of that and the fact the purity of the crystal is much better. Both would change the reaction components somewhat. We also have several mentions of the NX-01 matter/anti-matter injectors which would indicate that Starfleet's warp technology used something to control the reaction. Through out the shows run we are also given several references to power distribution and control manifold which would also lead one to believe the core was utilizing the crystals to control the plasma generation.
But it also stands to mention that we are never given a clear idea of how the reactor functions or what the underlying technology is. We can only hypothesis from the information given by Trip in "Cold Front" how the damn thing works. If I was to wager a guess based on the available information...
Slush deuterium and anti-deuterium are fed into magnetic constrictors through four large conditioner/injectors located port and starboard aft. Those magnetic injectors then constrict and feed the fuel streams into five warp injectors located port and starboard forward. Those streams are then fed into the dilithium matrix through conduits located in the forward stabilization struts on each side of the core. The dilithium matrix is made up of five separate crystals in individual articulation frames within the middle of the warp core. Since we are dealing with naturally occurring impure crystals, about 30% of the reactants escape the crystals unused. The two swirling “tanks” located along the outer edge contain the remaining reactants allowing them to finish annihilating one another and the resulting plasma is siphoned off by two sets of magnetic wave guides located on the top and bottom of the reactor housing (or those flashing lights in the raised box sections). The warp plasma is then mixed in the aft tank to minimize frequency shifts and then pumped by magnetic conduits to the first stage plasma accelerator on B Deck.
Hope that helps… makes sense… or whatever. I tend to give more information than people need.
But my website will have pretty pictures detailing all of that with a much more comprehensive explanation. However, this is just my take on it. Other people might see it another way entirely. Now the big question I think is, was NX-01 the first Earth vessel to use dilithium? Is dilithium what makes the warp five engine so exceptional?
As we see Earth freighters hauling tons of dilithium ore around (and they have apparently been doing so for years), we could suspect there are other users besides this single starship. However, "ore" hauling suggests that the dilithium in that ore cannot be easily extracted - so probably such ore contains no crystals of "warp drive size", only microscopic ones. So perhaps finding a natural dilithium shard that is large enough is a severe bottleneck for Earth's warp development efforts?
Timo Saloniemi
As we see Earth freighters hauling tons of dilithium ore around (and they have apparently been doing so for years), we could suspect there are other users besides this single starship. However, "ore" hauling suggests that the dilithium in that ore cannot be easily extracted - so probably such ore contains no crystals of "warp drive size", only microscopic ones. So perhaps finding a natural dilithium shard that is large enough is a severe bottleneck for Earth's warp development efforts?
Timo Saloniemi
