Enterprise Novels
- Thread starter Admiral Shran
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Off the top of my head, it may relate to the fact that they got off easy in WWIII, being so remote and self-contained.
Whereas the major Canadian population centres are cheek-and-jowl with Americans one so we couldn't escape the carnage. Plus Canada is a member of NATO and Australia isn't.
Anyway, Canada gets its comeuppance in Destiny where
Whereas the major Canadian population centres are cheek-and-jowl with Americans one so we couldn't escape the carnage. Plus Canada is a member of NATO and Australia isn't.
Anyway, Canada gets its comeuppance in Destiny where
two of the first three Borg drones are Canadian, including the first Queen.
But Crusher doesn't even say that Australia was the last to join. She simply asks if Earth would be allowed in the Federation if one nation-state didn't join AT ALL.
Sure, but that doesn't mean that Australia was not the last to join, either. If Australia was the last to join, it's perfectly reasonable to speculate about whether or not United Earth would qualify for Federation Membership if its territory encompassed all of Earth except for the Australian continent.
Right. It's possible that she didn't pick Australia at random, but because it was the last holdout and thus a plausible candidate for a nation that would refuse membership. Okay, it doesn't prove that it was the last nation to join, but the idea that it was is consistent with what we do know.
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
"The good that men do":
S31 faked Trip's death ~5 years earlier than mentioned in history, and then proceeded to create the fiction that, for 5 years, he was alive and well on board the Enterprise - 'erasing' the life of the engineer who replaced him and creating a fiction that Trip was there - in ALL recordings that were made, including public or personal ones, human or alien.
Good luck with that.
Considering that, for ~5 years novelverse time, Trip's 'death' woldn't have been a concern (and then a much more convincing 'fake death' could have been arranged), the suspension of disbelief shattering S31 set-up from the book was a REALLY BAD IDEEA.
S31 faked Trip's death ~5 years earlier than mentioned in history, and then proceeded to create the fiction that, for 5 years, he was alive and well on board the Enterprise - 'erasing' the life of the engineer who replaced him and creating a fiction that Trip was there - in ALL recordings that were made, including public or personal ones, human or alien.
Good luck with that.
Considering that, for ~5 years novelverse time, Trip's 'death' woldn't have been a concern (and then a much more convincing 'fake death' could have been arranged), the suspension of disbelief shattering S31 set-up from the book was a REALLY BAD IDEEA.
I'm afraid I find Archer's crew being incompetent far more plausible that the most pointless, stupid and impossible cover-up in history.
I so wish authors (other than M&M) had simply filled in the missing years between "Terra Prime" and "These are the Voyages", with exciting Trek first contact/origin stories instead of an intelligence-insulting fanwanky attempt to retcon Enterprise into the obsolete 1994 Star Trek Chronology and a tedious Romulan war.
Telling the story of the "real" Kobayashi Maru is a stone-cold brilliant idea. The execution was a huge disappointment for me - not Archer's choice but the whole set up and events themselves.
Sorry to sound like a troll. I know there are people who really enjoy M&M's Enterprise novels, and I hope they get lots out of it. I really wanted to like it, but it's one corner of the Trek lit 'verse I'm staying away from
Quoted for truth and awesomeness. It was a huge chance that was blown by some pretty mediocre authors.
Second verse, same as the first - I agree completely. While I don't hate their Titan novels (nor do I particularly like them), I absolutely despised Kobayashi Maru. Talk about watching a potentially great story pissed away...
I would very much like to see an Enterprise reboot reboot
At this point, I don't really think so. Given the choice, I would actually take TATV word for word over the retcon we got.
I maintain there was a really good episode in "These Are The Voyages," but it was dragged down by a lot of downright horrible stuff. Tucker's death (the actual death, with him putting on a brave face and winking at his friends just before her went into the imager) and the scene between Archer and T'Pol in his quarters among them. The circumstances where he was fatally wounded were terminally stupid (a jewel theft? Boarded by the most incompetent pirates ever? Blowing himself up? Jesus) but the dying was good.
Between that, and the fact that Trip would've died six years later, after the Romulan War, heck, three years after the show would've ended naturally, and that this Trip-secret-agent malarky is just going on forever, not to mention the retcons of destroying all the NX class ships like it's going out of style, and providing a reason TOS looked "less advanced," though I was always able to chalk that up to differences in sensibilities between the 2150s and the 2260s (and I thought IMAD put enough polish on the old designs for that to work), I feel like the Enterprise post-finale novels are a lot of missed opportunities.
And that's a shame. I remember when Enterprise was briefly rumored to be cancelled at the end of the third season, even after that turnaround, I was relieved because I thought Pocket would do the justice to the show that the show itself didn't. I was considerably less pleased when it was actually cancelled, since the fourth season actually exploited the premise and characters well, better than much of the current material, which has been aggressively average.
While I think it was great that they actually killed a character in Star Trek, it was still in their "safe zone" of when characters can die - either when a show is ending or when an actor wants out. Trek has yet to actually kill a character for the sake of the story itself. And the "how" of his death was far too stupid to make it worthwhile. I see SOME of where you're coming from with thinking TATV had a good episode in it, but if there was, it needed someone other than Berman and Braga to write it.
ENT's 4th season really was headed in the right direction for the most part and it is a shame it lost most of its audience by that point. It's also a shame some better authors didn't run with it and keep that momentum going into the novels.
ENT's 4th season really was headed in the right direction for the most part and it is a shame it lost most of its audience by that point. It's also a shame some better authors didn't run with it and keep that momentum going into the novels.
So, you wanted it to be just like the first two seasons? That sounds tedious to me.
I also can't agree that the book was fanwanky (in a bad sense). It seemed to pick up right where Season Four left off, in terms of tone and style.
Also, I don't think Section 31 would have had to completely rewrite history, down to the most minute detail. They simply had to muddy the waters enough for the facts to get confused.
So you don't want them to do the Romulan War? That seems like a pretty major part of the Trek backstory to ignore. Besides it was pretty obvious they were setting up for it during the show's last season.
I actually would love for someone to do it. Just not M&M. They haven't done anything good with it up to Kobayashi Maru (as far as I have read and probably will read) and I can't see it getting any better. You need to get some really good writers in there to write a story that big and they are not exactly the team for the job, in my opinion.
And if they can't get a writer who is good enough for the job, then I agree with KingDaniel - don't do it. I'd rather read a bunch of unrelated exploration and first contact novels than a shoddily thrown together, fanwank filled story arc.
And if they can't get a writer who is good enough for the job, then I agree with KingDaniel - don't do it. I'd rather read a bunch of unrelated exploration and first contact novels than a shoddily thrown together, fanwank filled story arc.
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
Enterprise's 'the romulan war' has been, so far, a mess of VERY POOR FANWANKY EXPLANATIONS AND RETCONS (the worst being the unfeasibly gigantic conspiracy needed to remove Trip from the enterprise and create the illusion he was on the ship 5 more years - and this in all sources, whether news feeds, personal letters, databases of aliens who encountered the ship, etc, etc).
As for the war itself, it is dry, it doesn't engage the reader's emotions. You read about all these people fighting and dying, but it reads like reading an autopsy report or a statistic book - boring. Statistics or clinically described action scenes. Characters with no depth.
For contrast, compare MM's books with Mack's writing. His strength is writing action scenes that have emotional gravitas, that make you feel for the characters.
He overabused those kind of scenes in 'Destiny' (not to mention his characterisations were in large part off - with some obtuse to the point of incomprehensibility decisions - and the plot is rather contrived - with improbable coincidences and the like), but that's another discussion.
As for the war itself, it is dry, it doesn't engage the reader's emotions. You read about all these people fighting and dying, but it reads like reading an autopsy report or a statistic book - boring. Statistics or clinically described action scenes. Characters with no depth.
For contrast, compare MM's books with Mack's writing. His strength is writing action scenes that have emotional gravitas, that make you feel for the characters.
He overabused those kind of scenes in 'Destiny' (not to mention his characterisations were in large part off - with some obtuse to the point of incomprehensibility decisions - and the plot is rather contrived - with improbable coincidences and the like), but that's another discussion.
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Had the Romulan war happened in Enterprise, I seriously doubt it would have resembled the version in the old Chronology, or the one in the current novel series. Why? Season 3 gave us an epic war story against the Xindi. I doubt they'd do another war so soon with less-interesting bad guys.
But the Romulan war could have taken other forms - a cold war with a couple of space battles would make sense (it would fit the season 4 set-up, and avoid a rehash of season 3), and the aborted Star Trek: The Beginning movie essentially reduced the Romulan "war" to an epic battle in Earth orbit.
The Romulan war is one of those things that sounds like a cool idea, but it works best in passing references and teases rather than in the flesh - Babylon 5 teased the Earth/Minbari war in a similar fashion to Trek's Romulan war, but Babylon 5: In the Beginning was pointless, moot, rubbish and a foregone conclusion.
I would have gotten a short, explosive war over with in one novel, then gotten back to Trekking.
But the Romulan war could have taken other forms - a cold war with a couple of space battles would make sense (it would fit the season 4 set-up, and avoid a rehash of season 3), and the aborted Star Trek: The Beginning movie essentially reduced the Romulan "war" to an epic battle in Earth orbit.
The Romulan war is one of those things that sounds like a cool idea, but it works best in passing references and teases rather than in the flesh - Babylon 5 teased the Earth/Minbari war in a similar fashion to Trek's Romulan war, but Babylon 5: In the Beginning was pointless, moot, rubbish and a foregone conclusion.
I would have gotten a short, explosive war over with in one novel, then gotten back to Trekking.
Well, we knew a lot more about the Minbari War than we do about the Romulan War. The only major beat of the movie we hadn't already been told about was the secret peace mission. Everything else, the First Contact, Sheridan and the Black Star, the Battle of the Line, had already been covered in the show, often with flashbacks that turned up in the movie.
In contrast, we don't know how the Romulan War started, how it ended, any major victories for either side, what people were involved, or anything else.
In contrast, we don't know how the Romulan War started, how it ended, any major victories for either side, what people were involved, or anything else.
The ENT novels are peaking to 2161. Showing how the Federation formed isn't compelling?
We take the Federation for granted in other eras, but but in ENT we get to see an independent Earth, a Vulcan with its own agenda, and Andoria and Tellar as their own nations. There has to be a major reason that they decided to cede a good deal of their sovereignty and get together.
What's not dramatic about a 98 year period in human history from First Contact in 2063 to the Federation in 2161? It's sounds epic to me.
We take the Federation for granted in other eras, but but in ENT we get to see an independent Earth, a Vulcan with its own agenda, and Andoria and Tellar as their own nations. There has to be a major reason that they decided to cede a good deal of their sovereignty and get together.
What's not dramatic about a 98 year period in human history from First Contact in 2063 to the Federation in 2161? It's sounds epic to me.
I reckon he may also have been Future Guy.
Them? Andy Mangels isn't writing with Michael A Martin anymore anyway.
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