ENT species in 24th Century novels?

[rfmcdpei]

I think the reason Star Charts moved Andoria from Epsilon Indi to Procyon is because ENT established Vulcan and Andoria as neighbors. ENT's astronomy is a real mess. The first couple of seasons seem to treat Vulcan as a distant world, but season 4 overtly places it 16 light years away, consistent with its usual placement at 40 Eridani.

Vulcan and Andoria would still be neighbours if the latter was at Epsilon Indi.

This, and the placement of the Tellarites at 61 Cygni, is a bit of a problem. The Andorians and the Tellarites are closer neighbours to Earth than Vulcan, their homeworlds closer than Terra Nova, and apparently much closer than Denobula Triaxa or Trillius Prime or other worlds Earth had trading relationships with. Why had they not been encountered before? (Or had the Tellarites been encountered before?)

 

[Sci]

I think the reason Star Charts moved Andoria from Epsilon Indi to Procyon is because ENT established Vulcan and Andoria as neighbors. ENT's astronomy is a real mess. The first couple of seasons seem to treat Vulcan as a distant world, but season 4 overtly places it 16 light years away, consistent with its usual placement at 40 Eridani.

Vulcan and Andoria would still be neighbours if the latter was at Epsilon Indi.

This, and the placement of the Tellarites at 61 Cygni, is a bit of a problem. The Andorians and the Tellarites are closer neighbours to Earth than Vulcan, their homeworlds closer than Terra Nova, and apparently much closer than Denobula Triaxa or Trillius Prime or other worlds Earth had trading relationships with. Why had they not been encountered before? (Or had the Tellarites been encountered before?)

I don't consider the distance issues to be particularly troublesome in terms of wondering why Earth didn't encounter Andorians or Tellarites earlier. Vulcan may well have staked a claim to Earth as being part of their sphere of influence, and if they were the regional hegemon, they'd be able to prevent most Andorian or Tellarite ships from reaching the Sol system.

 

[Christopher]

Vulcan and Andoria would still be neighbours if the latter was at Epsilon Indi.

Not really. Epsilon Indi is 19.4 light years from 40 Eridani, 3 light years farther from Vulcan than Earth is. From Earth's perspective, they're on opposite sides of the sky. But Procyon is only 13.2 ly from 40 Eri, closer to it than Earth is.

This, and the placement of the Tellarites at 61 Cygni, is a bit of a problem. The Andorians and the Tellarites are closer neighbours to Earth than Vulcan, their homeworlds closer than Terra Nova, and apparently much closer than Denobula Triaxa or Trillius Prime or other worlds Earth had trading relationships with. Why had they not been encountered before? (Or had the Tellarites been encountered before?)

Expansion doesn't go in a perfect sphere. Space is pretty big, and people have to choose their destinations.

Not to mention that the Vulcans tried to limit Earth's entry into space for nearly a century after first contact. So they may have steered us away from the Andorians and Tellarites so that we wouldn't get embroiled in their conflicts.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Vulcan and Andoria would still be neighbours if the latter was at Epsilon Indi.

Not really. Epsilon Indi is 19.4 light years from 40 Eridani, 3 light years farther from Vulcan than Earth is. From Earth's perspective, they're on opposite sides of the sky. But Procyon is only 13.2 ly from 40 Eri, closer to it than Earth is.[/QUOTE]

It would be closer at Epsilon Indi, but IMHO the difference would be marginal. The Andorian homeworld would be as much of a neighbour to Vulcan as Terra Nova, say, or Delta Pavonis, is to Earth. That's close.

This, and the placement of the Tellarites at 61 Cygni, is a bit of a problem. The Andorians and the Tellarites are closer neighbours to Earth than Vulcan, their homeworlds closer than Terra Nova, and apparently much closer than Denobula Triaxa or Trillius Prime or other worlds Earth had trading relationships with. Why had they not been encountered before? (Or had the Tellarites been encountered before?)

Expansion doesn't go in a perfect sphere. Space is pretty big, and people have to choose their destinations.

Not to mention that the Vulcans tried to limit Earth's entry into space for nearly a century after first contact. So they may have steered us away from the Andorians and Tellarites so that we wouldn't get embroiled in their conflicts.

When did humans have first contact with the Tellarites?

 

[Christopher]

Not really. Epsilon Indi is 19.4 light years from 40 Eridani, 3 light years farther from Vulcan than Earth is. From Earth's perspective, they're on opposite sides of the sky. But Procyon is only 13.2 ly from 40 Eri, closer to it than Earth is.

It would be closer at Epsilon Indi, but IMHO the difference would be marginal.

You mean it's closer at Procyon -- 6.2 ly closer to Vulcan, to be precise.

The Andorian homeworld would be as much of a neighbour to Vulcan as Terra Nova, say, or Delta Pavonis, is to Earth. That's close.

But the point is that it would be further from Vulcan than Earth is. If Earth were between Vulcan and Andoria, we would've been near the front lines of their conflicts and would've known about Andoria sooner.

When did humans have first contact with the Tellarites?

Indirectly, in "Dead Stop" (2252), when a Tellarite freighter answered Enterprise's distress call and let them know about the automated repair station. Face to face, in "Bounty" (early 2253), when the Tellarite Skalaar captured Jonathan Archer.

Although the Tellarites were theoretically aware of Earth even earlier, since they picked up the distress signal of a Vulcan scout ship crashed on Earth in 1957 and relayed it to the Vulcan High Command. And Archer first heard the name "Tellarite" from Garos in "Civilization" (2251).

 

[Enterprise1701]

^Are we sure that the Space Boomers did not accomplish all that beforehand?

 

[Christopher]

The Boomers made their share of first contacts, but Travis never said anything about being familiar with Tellarites. Still, since Tellarites are active in trading and freight hauling, it seems reasonable they and the Boomers might've had some commerce at least indirectly.

 

[Ethros]

Indirectly, in "Dead Stop" (2252), when a Tellarite freighter answered Enterprise's distress call and let them know about the automated repair station. Face to face, in "Bounty" (early 2253), when the Tellarite Skalaar captured Jonathan Archer.

Although the Tellarites were theoretically aware of Earth even earlier, since they picked up the distress signal of a Vulcan scout ship crashed on Earth in 1957 and relayed it to the Vulcan High Command. And Archer first heard the name "Tellarite" from Garos in "Civilization" (2251).

Somehow I think you know, but for the record you've put 22-- on all those year dates when it should be 21--



Seen as how make-up wise the Andorians didn't get "redone" till 2001 with ENT s1, I always think it's a shame we couldn't have seen a random Andorian crewmember aboard the Enterprise-E in Nemesis (like how in First Contact & Insurrection there are random Bolian, Bajoran and Trill crewmembers etc)

 

[Christopher]

Somehow I think you know, but for the record you've put 22-- on all those year dates when it should be 21--

Arrgh! The problem is we call it the Nth century when the years start with N-1. I'm not immune to that confusion. And darn it, it's too late to edit.

 

[rfmcdpei]

The Andorian homeworld would be as much of a neighbour to Vulcan as Terra Nova, say, or Delta Pavonis, is to Earth. That's close.

But the point is that it would be further from Vulcan than Earth is. If Earth were between Vulcan and Andoria, we would've been near the front lines of their conflicts and would've known about Andoria sooner.

Would we have? For almost a century, the Vulcans had managed to hide the existence of their Andorian challengers from human beings, even though the Andorians' own homeworld was located in orbit of a bright nearby star. Does it make a difference if the Andorians were nine light-years away at Procyon or twelve light-years away at Epsilon Indi?

 

[Christopher]

^Look, I'm not endorsing it, I'm just speculating as to why Mandel chose to move Andoria from Epsilon Indi to Procyon. If you want to argue with the decision, argue with Mandel, don't shoot the messenger.

 

[rfmcdpei]

^Look, I'm not endorsing it, I'm just speculating as to why Mandel chose to move Andoria from Epsilon Indi to Procyon. If you want to argue with the decision, argue with Mandel, don't shoot the messenger.

I think I got off-track. My apologies.

I got involved in this just wanting to point out that, whatever Star Charts says, even recent Treklit is divided on the question of the Andorians' homesystem. Martin says Procyon, Swallow says Epsilon Indi. I've a slight preference for Epsilon Indi, but then I suppose Andor could orbit a gas giant in an odd retrograde orbit about Procyon A.

 

[Idran]

Why retrograde, out of curiosity?

 

[rfmcdpei]

Apparently if a body in a close binary system has a retrograde orbit around one of the component stars, it can have a more distant and stable orbit than would otherwise be the case. I don't know the underlying physics, unfortunately.

 

[Idran]

Apparently if a body in a close binary system has a retrograde orbit around one of the component stars, it can have a more distant and stable orbit than would otherwise be the case. I don't know the underlying physics, unfortunately.

Asked about it elsewhere, and I got linked this paper; I never would've thought of that having an effect. Interesting! I can't follow all the math of it without a deeper read - only skimmed it just now - but from the abstract and that skim, it all has to do with orbital resonances. It looks like it's more stable not just at a greater distance, but at a higher mass ratio too.