Ent is better than disco in every way

[kirk55555]

I do think that Enterprise, post Season 1, improved a good deal and gets a worse reputation then it deserves. It has a lot of problems, and I don't think I could call it an outright good show, but its ok. It definitely did the "season long arc" better then Discovery or Picard have done.

I do think its much, much better then Discovery, but if I'm completely honest I will give Discovery a few things. DSC, for as bad as the focus on Burnham is, honestly probably still gives more characters a focus then ENT does. Both shows have bridge crew that are basically just extras with a few lines, but with ENT it feels like someone like Mayweather should have a bigger role, while in DSC the helmsperson and the woman with the robot eye don't feel like they're being really underused, they're obviously background characters. Also the Starfleet characters in DSC, while over emotional idiots a lot of the time, still feel like they represent Starfleet better, and they also don't seem like they'd be stupid enough to do some of the more moronic things archer did, like bring a Dog onto a planet that told him not to then get mad at the aliens when the dog got sick. Another positive is that DSC also introduced the current Captain Pike, who is awesome.

Besides that though I think Enterprise is better with making me actually like the characters, its interior and ship designs are 1000 times better, and most of even its bad episodes are better then most of DSCs episode, and generally less stupid. I may hate A Night in Sickbay, but at least it doesn't involve

Spoiler: Discovery Season 3 Spoilers

a magic psychic child basically destroying the Galaxy

, and its nowhere near as boring as the post time travel stuff, either.

 

[The Wormhole]

Discovery does have better representation- which is important. But as far as morality goes, Cogenitor is a phenomenal ENT episode where a non binary person is treated as a non entity.

The nuance / ethics / moral quandary / human rights questions this episode highlights are very profound, and it was written 20 years ago. From my POV DISCO doesn't have an episode that compares to Cogenitor as this is pretty deep. After i watched Cogenitor i thought about it long after i viewed it. Was Tripp right- or was he wrong? I can think of no DISCO episode that was as profound.

Cogenitor is an entertaining enough episode but it's hardly the masterpiece you're making it out to be. And really, it has one of the more flawed endings in all Star Trek, in that Trip's actions have led to a person committing suicide, and because of that a couple who were trying to start a family can't (or at least have to wait longer) and relations between Earth and a potential ally are screwed over, perhaps even irreparably. And his punishment? Archer gives him a fatherly "I'm not angry, just disappointed" lecture.

 

[fireproof78]

I do think that Enterprise, post Season 1, improved a good deal and gets a worse reputation then it deserves. It has a lot of problems, and I don't think I could call it an outright good show, but its ok. It definitely did the "season long arc" better then Discovery or Picard have done.

I do think its much, much better then Discovery, but if I'm completely honest I will give Discovery a few things. DSC, for as bad as the focus on Burnham is, honestly probably still gives more characters a focus then ENT does. Both shows have bridge crew that are basically just extras with a few lines, but with ENT it feels like someone like Mayweather should have a bigger role, while in DSC the helmsperson and the woman with the robot eye don't feel like they're being really underused, they're obviously background characters. Also the Starfleet characters in DSC, while over emotional idiots a lot of the time, still feel like they represent Starfleet better, and they also don't seem like they'd be stupid enough to do some of the more moronic things archer did, like bring a Dog onto a planet that told him not to then get mad at the aliens when the dog got sick. Another positive is that DSC also introduced the current Captain Pike, who is awesome.

Besides that though I think Enterprise is better with making me actually like the characters, its interior and ship designs are 1000 times better, and most of even its bad episodes are better then most of DSCs episode, and generally less stupid. I may hate A Night in Sickbay, but at least it doesn't involve

Spoiler: Discovery Season 3 Spoilers

a magic psychic child basically destroying the Galaxy

, and its nowhere near as boring as the post time travel stuff, either.

I may not agree with a lot of what you say but the larger point is worth highlight-ENT has some strong suits and DSC as some strong suits. The idea that ENT beats DSC in "every way" is rather nonsensical because many will have subjective opinion on what are good characters, and that even shows I don't like have good points.

How much the highs outweigh the lows will always make a show better for it. For me, DSC's highs 100% outweigh the lows, while ENT's just don't.

 

[Ragitsu]

Start with the essentials - writing, directing and acting - and then go from there.

 

[fireproof78]

Start with the essentials - writing, directing and acting - and then go from there.

That's fair. I start with characters and go from there. If you engage me with characters I am more forgiving of writing, and acting. Directing I couldn't give a shit about. It has to be absolutely awful or completely amazing for me to notice. Other than that I don't notice it.

 

[Oddish]

And really, it has one of the more flawed endings in all Star Trek, in that Trip's actions have led to a person committing suicide, and because of that a couple who were trying to start a family can't (or at least have to wait longer) and relations between Earth and a potential ally are screwed over, perhaps even irreparably. And his punishment? Archer gives him a fatherly "I'm not angry, just disappointed" lecture.

I still can't get over the fact that so many people revile Trip, who made Charles the Cogenitor aware that she was being abused, while being completely Ok with the chief engineer and his wife, who actually committed the abuse. THEY drove Charles to suicide, not Trip. They do not deserve a particle of sympathy. I hope those two never got within 500 meters of another cogenitor, never had their kid, and had to settle for the Vissian equivalent of a Welsh Corgi.

 

[bobjones]

have you ever considered that the Cogenitor was murdered? They would not want this Cogenitor to influence other Cogenitors. Something about the news of the suicide relayed by the Vissian captain always felt odd to me.

 

[Tosk]

it has one of the more flawed endings in all Star Trek

You say flawed, I say interesting. I don't mind an unhappy ending once in a while, especially when it comes due to a moral quandary.

 

[Oddish]

have you ever considered that the Cogenitor was murdered? They would not want this Cogenitor to influence other Cogenitors. Something about the news of the suicide relayed by the Vissian captain always felt odd to me.

It almost doesn't matter. Either way, Charles died because Archer turned his back on her, and her people were determined to ensure that cogenitors knew their place.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Hey look, it's Oddish hating on "Cogenitor"! Must be Wednesday.

Protip: If different members regard a particular episode as phenomenal, a masterpiece, flawed, interesting... whatever, that's great! Everyone has the right to their own opinion, and they're all valid for the folks making them. No point in trying to "win" a subjective discussion. It's not MMA.

@bobjones, you basically posted duplicate threads about ENT vs Disco, one here, one in the Disco forum. We don't need two of them. And since this thread has devolved into a "Cogenitor" argument anyway, we're done talking about Disco here! So if anyone wishes to continue with the ENT vs Disco discussion, hie thee thither.

*closed*