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ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate!!!

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Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

Posted by Stewey:


Buffy is a totally different entity than that of Enterprise. Buffy is just a one-show franchise whereas Enterprise is part of a sucessful television and movie franchise.

I'm sorry. Couldn't let this sit:

One of the best shows currently on TV is called Angel, a spin off of Buffy. It's now in its fifth year, and I encourage y'all to check it out!

:)

(and there was a Buffy movie which I won't discuss. ;))
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

Posted by 3 of 1:
Posted by Stewey:


Buffy is a totally different entity than that of Enterprise. Buffy is just a one-show franchise whereas Enterprise is part of a sucessful television and movie franchise.

I'm sorry. Couldn't let this sit:

One of the best shows currently on TV is called Angel, a spin off of Buffy. It's now in its fifth year, and I encourage y'all to check it out!

:)

(and there was a Buffy movie which I won't discuss. ;))

I stand corrected :)
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

Okay, Okay. I think there's still some misconceptions about how we mods do things around here:

(a) We ain't on the boards 24hrs a day

This one may seem fairly obvious but I think it's important to keep in mind. Someone brought it up before and used the comments (and I'm paraphrasing) "I'm reading a thread that's going downhill and wondering if the mods are reading this and why aren't they doing anything?" - well sometimes we aren't reading it, for the simple fact that aren't around to be reading it.

And I'm sure there are times when none of the mods are on at all. That's why we ask that you be patient. Don't respond to flames or trolling - sure it's hard (I had problems with it myself before I became a mod), but it's worse for us to come into a thread and have to give out multiple warnings to people who really aren't troublemakers because they couldn't wait.

(b) We split up the forum

As you may have noticed - it's a big forum. We can't possibly read every single thread at all times - especially after a new episode airs - so we split the forum up into groups of letters which each mod is assigned to and every month we rotate letters.

That's not to say we can't jump in on others threads if we see a problem but I know if I'm busier than usual and only have limited time to check the board, I tend to just quickly read through my own letters and trust the others to take care of their letters. And those letters are also the first ones I check when I come into the forum.

(c) We don't like to give out warnings

Despite calls to the contrary in the M.A. forum, we don't like to give out warnings. It's a pain in the neck - you have to hit the warning button, enter the warning, check the warning list to make sure it went in okay. I'm here to discuss the show too, not read the warnings list.

(d) Bias

This relates to point (c) as well as you'll see in a minute hopefully.

We also get a lot of calls of bias against us - from both sides.

"We're going to easy on the bashers."
"No you're warning the bashers constantly and letting the gushers slide"

I've heard both - hell being a self-professed gusher I'm sure I said the first before I became a mod. I know as a regular poster that certain people's comments would upset me and I'd wonder why the hell the mods weren't doing anything about it or they didn't do it quick enough or whatever.

Then I became a mod:

And the Facts are:
This is a forum for all people, no matter what their opinion on the show, to come and discuss it.

Now we try to be as fair as possible. Try being the operative word. We're human (I hope ;) ) and we can't help but make mistakes, or judge things through our own coloured perceptions.

Something that a gusher might say to a basher that the basher finds offensive - well, other gushers might not see why - And of course the reverse holds true as well, something a basher might say may be offensive to a gusher but the other bashers might not see why.

That's where the whole borderline posts come into it and it's not an easy area to judge sometimes.

So now that I'm a mod and am obliged to be fair and impartial - sometimes I have to try and distance myself from my own views when I read a thread. Hopefully I'm being somewhat successful at it.

And here's the important bit - sometimes I have to think about it. Or I want another opinion so I go and talk to the other mods I see online. This can cause delays with jumping into a thread and taking action.

And that's yet another reason why we ask you to be patient. And if you can't be patient -

ANNOY US (that's what we're not paid for :p )

PM's, email. In fact sometimes PM is better than the notify mod button because you can explain why the dodgy post upset you.

(e)Sometimes we handle things in private

We use the PM function too sometimes and PM posters we think are getting close to the edge of a warning or we think are going overboard.

(f) The 'notify mod' button

This sends an email to all the mods in the forum - we look at them all (many a time I've gone into a thread on the basis of a notify mod email and seen that it's already been taken care of by another mod). Sometimes we don't agree that what you've notified merits a warning so nothing happens. But if we aren't online or aren't looking at our email the minute you press it and it comes through we can't act straight away - we get to it as soon as we can.


Well I've finished being long-winded and boring for now. I hope this sheds some light on things.
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

^ LC -- thanks for the indepth view. I know you guys aren't on all the time. I know it's a big board. And, I know it's a fairly thankless and tough job. Hey, if we can nitpick over pon farr, there's no end to what we'll want to delve into.

I can only type -- for the most part I think you guys are pretty fair.

The one thing I'd love to see (if you guys can swing it) is if I do "notify mod" (use the button) it'd be nice to get an automatic response or something back from you guys that indicates, "Eh, this isn't that bad. Let me know if things get worse."

If you do PM (which I think is excellent) a person to ask them to cool their heels a bit, it may be nice to let the the "offended" party know. Again, that's assuming you can.

Either form of follow-up is a nice reminder that you're watching and you're on top of it -- making a safer Trek haven for us nerds. Well ... at least I'm a nerd.

Thanks again!
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

^Yeah that's definitely something we can keep in mind for doing.

Although again, sometimes it's a time thing - especially if we get a lot of 'notify mod' messages.
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

This is a forum for all people, no matter what their opinion on the show, to come and discuss it.

Ok I don't know if there has ever been anyone on the board that fits this description. I know I have not seen one, so that alone speaks volumes to me, but what would the mods do if there was a person on the board and in this forum specifically, that hated everything about Star Trek. Every post would be a well thought out reason why Star Trek sucked and was a waste of time. They do not attack anyone personally just state their opinions about why Star Trek is the worst franchise ever. Would such a person be welcomed with open arms?
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

Posted by Galactus:
This is a forum for all people, no matter what their opinion on the show, to come and discuss it.

Ok I don't know if there has ever been anyone on the board that fits this description. I know I have not seen one, so that alone speaks volumes to me, but what would the mods do if there was a person on the board and in this forum specifically, that hated everything about Star Trek. Every post would be a well thought out reason why Star Trek sucked and was a waste of time. They do not attack anyone personally just state their opinions about why Star Trek is the worst franchise ever. Would such a person be welcomed with open arms?

Yes, as long as they posted within the boards rules.

Someone like that can bring a new point of view to the franchise which can spark debate amongst the other posters.

If someone like that came along and openly trolled the members then I expect they wouldn't last long.
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

Posted by George_42:
Posted by Galactus:
This is a forum for all people, no matter what their opinion on the show, to come and discuss it.

Ok I don't know if there has ever been anyone on the board that fits this description. I know I have not seen one, so that alone speaks volumes to me, but what would the mods do if there was a person on the board and in this forum specifically, that hated everything about Star Trek. Every post would be a well thought out reason why Star Trek sucked and was a waste of time. They do not attack anyone personally just state their opinions about why Star Trek is the worst franchise ever. Would such a person be welcomed with open arms?

Yes, as long as they posted within the boards rules.

Someone like that can bring a new point of view to the franchise which can spark debate amongst the other posters.

If someone like that came along and openly trolled the members then I expect they wouldn't last long.

Someone please tell me what trolling is. Is it in the board rules or something.
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

Posted by Galactus:
Someone please tell me what trolling is. Is it in the board rules or something.

From the rules

Trolling is an internet term that means you're not posting to actually start or participate in a good discussion, but simply to anger another member or group of members. Posting in order to bait other users, moderators or administrators will not be tolerated.

If you haven't read the rules I recomend you do before commenting on who should or shouldn't be allowed to post.
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

George is correct. As long as the poster obeys board rules, they're welcomed to post their opinions. The beauty of that is that you've got the courtesy of debating that opinion.

LC laid down the facts about us and how we handle things quite accurately. I much prefer to handle things via pm with the offending member or in case I need clarification on a matter before I make an official call. What needs to be kept in mind is the fact that we're not here all the time but I can promise you that if you've "notified" us, the post is going to be looked over.
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

Posted by George_42:
Posted by Galactus:
Someone please tell me what trolling is. Is it in the board rules or something.

From the rules

Trolling is an internet term that means you're not posting to actually start or participate in a good discussion, but simply to anger another member or group of members. Posting in order to bait other users, moderators or administrators will not be tolerated.

If you haven't read the rules I recomend you do before commenting on who should or shouldn't be allowed to post.

Thanks for the help and the insult. Ok so please direct me to where the board rules are listed.

Now based on that definition how is it possible to tell when someone just has a negative opinion vs trying to bait and anger another poster. Seems to me that in an Enterprise forum making threads berating the show is automatic baiting, but that is just me.
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

The rules are on the right of the page, in a block listing a bunch of little light-blue links.

Now based on that definition how is it possible to tell when someone just has a negative opinion vs trying to bait and anger another poster.

Don't worry about it. That's for the mods to determine. ;) Oh, and notice in the rules that regular posters aren't allowed to call other posters trolls or claim others are trolling (or spamming or whatever). You can think whatever you want, just be kind about what you post.

Seems to me that in an Enterprise forum making threads berating the show is automatic baiting, but that is just me.

No, I don't think it is just you. ;) But the forum is intended for discussion of the show, not specifically for either glorifying it or picking it to pieces. Either of the latter would be boring--half of the subject (any subject) would be off-limits for discussion! It's perfectly OK to express a less-than-glowing opinion about some aspect of the show, if it's your opinion. No matter whether you're usually positive, negative, or lukewarm about it. :)


And I feel it is significant to note that I keep tabs on the Cardinals not because of any intrinsic qualities the players on the team possess, but simply because they once played in St. Louis. And some of the "bashers" may be interested in "Enterprise" just because it's being shown under the name "Star Trek", and whether they think it's worthy of the name or not, Star Trek interests them enough to cause them to watch just to keep track of what's being done with the franchise.

So don't worry about their motivation. ;)


As for those who are unrelenting in their criticism: I feel they are good for this forum, as much so as are those who are unrelenting in their praise (which latter seem much more numerous, but then you'd expect that with a site for Star Trek fans ;)). I have learned to simply disregard the general opinions of those bashers or gushers whose posts I have found to be consistently partisan and devoid of content. As for others whose comments are similarly one-sided but insightful and intelligent, I find their posts interesting and disregard any underlying slant that I am used to seeing from them. Just because someone like Stewey (who does make interesting, insightful comments) may be consistent in his or her like or dislike is no reason to assume that he or she does not have a point in any particular post.

So in short: ignore boring posts and approach interesting ones with an open mind. ;)
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

Wow, this thing sure heated up again! I'm glad it did. It's good to see problems being discussed in here, as opposed to some other thread where folks are trying to talk about the show. I do want to address a few of the things said in here.

First, though...

Posted by 8-4-7-2:
As usually Dennis shows that he will never ever reply to the topic at hand with a direct answer, instead choosing to sidestep valid arguments with snide remarks and wholly irrelevant points.
Anyone else would have had a friendly warning for that long ago

After careful consideration, I'm going to give you a warning for trolling for this post, 8-4-7-2. I was really hoping not to have to hand out any warnings in this thread, but if you look at the very first post in this thread, I asked people to not get personal. And there's no other way to look at this post other than as an attack on Dennis.

***
A few things (though Lady C has said many of the things I was going to mention, and very well--go reread her post, too! ;) ):

--Friendly Warnings: They're basically a second/last chance thing. We're asking you to knock off a certain behavior or you'll be warned. It's not an "ok, go on as you are and keep up the light insults/attacks." It's a "knock it off, now" warning, before the official one comes along.

--I want to doubly emphasize the "everyone is welcome idea." Guys, if we only had people who liked the show in here, do you realize all the great debate everyone would miss out on? It's fun to defend something you like, and point out the flaws in something you had a problem with.

--On that note, it's important to remember that everyone is here because they love Star Trek. Whether that means they love TOS and hate everything else, love all the shows, are a huge VOY and ENT fan, only like "The Trouble with Tribbles" because they think it's the greatest thing ever filmed and that is that!--we're all Trek fans.

A lot of people who watch Enterprise are watching it because they're Trek fans. They might love the show because they think it gets back to the basics of what Trek is. They might dislike it because they think that it falls far short of the "glory days of Trek" (be it TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY--whatever). My point is that they love Trek, so they are fans. If not of Enterprise, at least of the franchise that brings us all here. Please keep that in mind the next time you want to label someone a "hater" of ENT/Trek, etc.
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

Posted by Galactus:Now based on that definition how is it possible to tell when someone just has a negative opinion vs trying to bait and anger another poster. Seems to me that in an Enterprise forum making threads berating the show is automatic baiting, but that is just me.

No it is not baiting anyone, you just need to accept that those with a "negative" view will open threads of a "negative" nature, complaining about that is as ridiculous as complaining about cows shitting in fields. The mere fact you mention “berating the show ” defeats your argument because criticising the show is allowed (with reasonable explanations to support the claims made in such a thread) and criticising the fans or forum posters is not, end of story.
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

Posted by Top41:
--I want to doubly emphasize the "everyone is welcome idea." Guys, if we only had people who liked the show in here, do you realize all the great debate everyone would miss out on? It's fun to defend something you like, and point out the flaws in something you had a problem with.

--On that note, it's important to remember that everyone is here because they love Star Trek. Whether that means they love TOS and hate everything else, love all the shows, are a huge VOY and ENT fan, only like "The Trouble with Tribbles" because they think it's the greatest thing ever filmed and that is that!--we're all Trek fans.

A lot of people who watch Enterprise are watching it because they're Trek fans. They might love the show because they think it gets back to the basics of what Trek is. They might dislike it because they think that it falls far short of the "glory days of Trek" (be it TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY--whatever). My point is that they love Trek, so they are fans. If not of Enterprise, at least of the franchise that brings us all here. Please keep that in mind the next time you want to label someone a "hater" of ENT/Trek, etc.

I know I keep mentioning this, but I am just trying to discuss the thread as awhole. I would agree with what you said if this was the General Discussion or one of the other general Star Trek forums. But this is the Enterprise forum. It is about just Enterprise not Star Trek in general. If someone makes a posts that is too general or does not pertain to Enterprise it is moved to another forum. This is why I think that you should at least like Enterprise on some level at least in order to have a meaningful discussion about the show. I am not saying you have to like everything about it, but you should like it on some level not just Star Trek in general.
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

Posted by Galactus:This is why I think that you should at least like Enterprise on some level at least in order to have a meaningful discussion about the show.

Not true, if someone makes a valid point about the show, what does it matter whether they like the show on a level or not. The point they make is at the very heart of the matter, not their presence in the forum or their bias towards or against the show.
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

Posted by Galactus:

this is the Enterprise forum.

It is about just Enterprise not Star Trek in general.

If someone makes a posts that is too general or does not pertain to Enterprise it is moved to another forum.

This is why I think that you should at least like Enterprise on some level at least in order to have a meaningful discussion about the show.

Your last point does not make sense. You are setting up an argument that off-topic banter be moved elsewhere. Fair enough.

Criticism of Enterprise - even relentless criticism - is most definitely on topic. There is no better forum for it than the Enterprise forum.
 
Re: ENT Forum Mediation Thread--Please Participate

Posted by Stewey:
Not true, if someone makes a valid point about the show, what does it matter whether they like the show on a level or not. The point they make is at the very heart of the matter, not their presence in the forum or their bias towards or against the show.

Actually, when someone dislikes the show that intensely the question of why they're in the forum is usually more intriguing than the points they make.
 
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