Ent-D in the Next Gen movies - shoulda kept it?

[Cadet49]

I personally wish the hadn't blown up the Ent-D in Generations. That ship was the one we had seen through the entire television series on which the movies were based - it had a history, and the audience had seen it survive through many close scrapes. I think Picard's anger at the thought of losing the Enterprise to the Borg would have be much more dramatic if it had been the Enterprise-D.

I understand that the film makers felt that the Ent-D model was not detailed enough for film, but they could have said it went into a refit after TNG, and have refined the model. They could have even had the saucer crash land, but later have it recovered and attached to a new, redesigned stardrive section (perhaps with some of the refinements we saw hinted at in "All Good Things..."

The TNG films, in many ways, seemed like a real departure from the series ... new ship, new uniforms, Picard doing lots of the action, etc. ... and I think keeping the Ent-D would have been a nice continuity link to the television series.

 

[TyberiusDeAngelo]

I like the Enterprise-E and I think it is a beautiful design, but I think keeping the "D" for First Contact, Insurrection, and Nemesis would have worked just as well. The "D" was a character in the TNG franchise as much as Picard, Riker, Data, etc. The movies could not devote the time and energy necessary to make the "E" a character in and of itself. And I never really had an attachment to the "E" as I did with the former ship.

 

[arch101]

FC would have had a much more intense "horror" aspect to it if we'd seen civilians and children borgified. Also, as posted above, the ship had much more meaning to Picard than the new ship. Besides, Probert's ship is a work of art. No reason to change it.

 

[Mark 2000]

The TNG movies were a disaster, so I don't really care what ship they used. I personally never liked the direction of the triangular hulls and low profiles of the EE and Voyager. Both ships look like nothing but lumpy messes from the sides. Even from the front and back there's not a lot of definition.

 

[Mr Silver]

FC would have had a much more intense "horror" aspect to it if we'd seen civilians and children borgified.

But that would have made the movie a horror film, which would probably have disgusted the purists more than ST09.

Also, as posted above, the ship had much more meaning to Picard than the new ship. Besides, Probert's ship is a work of art. No reason to change it.

Yes I agree, Picard's whole "Noooo!" outburst would have meant more if it had been the Ent-D that he was being forced to destroy. The movies needed the Ent-E though, just like they needed the refitted Ent and the Ent-A. The only issues I have with the movie ships is that they weren't shown in any of the series', not for starship porn reasons, but it makes sense, especially during huge battles such as the "Battle of Cardassia" to have your most advanced ships present.

 

[los2188]

I personally wish the hadn't blown up the Ent-D in Generations. That ship was the one we had seen through the entire television series on which the movies were based - it had a history, and the audience had seen it survive through many close scrapes. I think Picard's anger at the thought of losing the Enterprise to the Borg would have be much more dramatic if it had been the Enterprise-D.

I understand that the film makers felt that the Ent-D model was not detailed enough for film, but they could have said it went into a refit after TNG, and have refined the model. They could have even had the saucer crash land, but later have it recovered and attached to a new, redesigned stardrive section (perhaps with some of the refinements we saw hinted at in "All Good Things..."

The TNG films, in many ways, seemed like a real departure from the series ... new ship, new uniforms, Picard doing lots of the action, etc. ... and I think keeping the Ent-D would have been a nice continuity link to the television series.

I never totally cared for the design of the Enterprise D personally. I understand the attachment to it and all, but I think they needed a new ship for the movies. My only problem with the E is that they should have kept certain aspects of the D like families on board, saucer separation, and a large ten-forward. From what I read about the D is that obviously they felt they needed an "upgrade" to the E to make it seem "cool" to non-Trek fans. As far as continuity links, they should have done a lot more of that in the way of characters. To me there is NO doubt that Sela should have been behind Shinzon on Nemesis if not Sela then Q, just like Guinan should have been in First Contact. It seems as though the movies that were the most over were when you had a character from the TV series having a substantial role in the TNG movies.

 

[Mr Pointy Ears]

I like the E,but i like the D more and it should of being destroyed at the end of nemesis and have picard and crew tranferred to the NEW Enterprise-1701-E,except riker and troi going to the titan.

 

[Dukhat]

I personally wish the hadn't blown up the Ent-D in Generations. That ship was the one we had seen through the entire television series on which the movies were based - it had a history, and the audience had seen it survive through many close scrapes. I think Picard's anger at the thought of losing the Enterprise to the Borg would have be much more dramatic if it had been the Enterprise-D.

Completely agreed.

I understand that the film makers felt that the Ent-D model was not detailed enough for film, but they could have said it went into a refit after TNG, and have refined the model. They could have even had the saucer crash land, but later have it recovered and attached to a new, redesigned stardrive section (perhaps with some of the refinements we saw hinted at in "All Good Things..."

The whole "not detailed enough for film" excuse really doesn't fly with me. Even if TPTB thought the model couldn't have been renovated, a film-quality version of the D could have been constructed, just like the E was. Everyone would have accepted it as the same ship from the series just fine. No, the real reason is that they just wanted a new ship after 7 years of the last one. But the D would have worked fine.

 

[los2188]

I understand that the film makers felt that the Ent-D model was not detailed enough for film, but they could have said it went into a refit after TNG, and have refined the model. They could have even had the saucer crash land, but later have it recovered and attached to a new, redesigned stardrive section (perhaps with some of the refinements we saw hinted at in "All Good Things..."

The whole "not detailed enough for film" excuse really doesn't fly with me. Even if TPTB thought the model couldn't have been renovated, a film-quality version of the D could have been constructed, just like the E was. Everyone would have accepted it as the same ship from the series just fine. No, the real reason is that they just wanted a new ship after 7 years of the last one. But the D would have worked fine.[/QUOTE]

I don't think there's any doubt at all that after 7 years they just wanted a new ship and that people would have accepted the D as the same ship from the series, but as technologies advance in the Trek Universe, don't you think that the flagship of Starfleet should also mirror that?? To make it look as advanced and cool, which I know is based on opinion, as the flagship can be?? Let me ask you this....when Star Trek The Motion Picture came out, do you believe that it shouldn't have been refitted or should they have used the exact same ship that was used in the the original TV series??

 

[Phily B]

I loved how the D looked on the big screen, including the sets. One of my favourite things about Generations is seeing the Ent-D, its just a shame the way she went out. Sovereign class is cool, but it just wasn't the D.

 

[inflatabledalek]

Whilst I can sympathise with some of the logistical reasons for replacing the D (including the need to make room for the Voyager sets), I'd still much rather have had the ship damaged but not out at the end of Generations so that the excuse of a big refit could have been used for all new interiors and whatever external changes they might have wanted to make for FC.

 

[Mage]

Was it someone from this forum who photoshopped some very well done images of the E-D in First Contact? You could hardly see it was shopped. The shot of the Enterprise coming out of the nebula in the beginning: The D. A shot of the battle: The D and so forth.

Even manipt some images of the D bridge with the crew in FC-style uniforms and shots of the battle on screen, just like in the film. Looked very good, and made me realize the D could've worked in the movies.

But I'm one the guys that actually really loves the Sovereign class, so yeah.

 

[los2188]

Was it someone from this forum who photoshopped some very well done images of the E-D in First Contact? You could hardly see it was shopped. The shot of the Enterprise coming out of the nebula in the beginning: The D. A shot of the battle: The D and so forth.

Even manipt some images of the D bridge with the crew in FC-style uniforms and shots of the battle on screen, just like in the film. Looked very good, and made me realize the D could've worked in the movies.

But I'm one the guys that actually really loves the Sovereign class, so yeah.

From all that I've read regarding the trailers from First Contact and yes, the working title of Star Trek Generations 2, is that they wanted to keep the new design of the Enterprise E a secret until First Contact was released, so they released the teaser trailers. If anyone is wondering, that trailer that I supplied a link for on youtube is not mine, nor did I photo-shop anything. I know a little about computers, but I've never photo-shopped anything, nor do I even know how, nor would I ever do that. Honestly, I'd have no reason to do that if I could. Personally, I think it's lame when people do that sort of thing. I know that no one is accusing me of doing that, but I got lucky and found that trailer on youtube just like any one of us could have found. I still like the Enterprise E much, much better than D.

 

[BlobVanDam]

I love both ships, but I'm glad they changed it. It gave them a change to update and modernize it. Maybe they could have just pulled a TMP style refit, but I'm glad they did something. That's not to say they needed to, as the D was a beautiful and detailed ship that held up well on the big screen, but I think it was a good opportunity for a change.

It wouldn't have bothered me one bit if they'd stuck with the D, but for some of the more elaborate shots they did with the E, I'm not sure the D would have held up from all of those angles. The E looked good from about any angle, but some of those going to warp shots might not have looked as good with the stumpy D.

 

[los2188]

I am still curious....to anyone reading this message that thinks they should have kept the Enterprise D in the movies...should they also have kept the Enterprise from the original TV series instead of refitting the Enterprise in The Motion Picture???

 

[inflatabledalek]

I am still curious....to anyone reading this message that thinks they should have kept the Enterprise D in the movies...should they also have kept the Enterprise from the original TV series instead of refitting the Enterprise in The Motion Picture???

I don't think anyone's saying they shouldn't have updated and changed things to keep pace with the times (which is what TMP does, only because it's been such a long gap and such an insanse difference in the budget the differences are so extreme it takes a bit of suspension of disbelief it's the same ship even with the refit excuse), just it would have been nice to keep the D for the films. Not a deal breaking thing though as I doubt it would have made Insurection or Nemesis any better/worse (though as said, the Borg attacking what had become an old friend might have added something more to FC).

 

[F. King Daniel]

I am still curious....to anyone reading this message that thinks they should have kept the Enterprise D in the movies...should they also have kept the Enterprise from the original TV series instead of refitting the Enterprise in The Motion Picture???

On this site there are people who think they should have kept the original TV series Enterprise for Star Trek 2009!

As for the OP, the Enterprise-D was never my favourite ship design, and by Generations all that 80's wood-effect decor on the sets was desperately in need of replacement. So, yeah, Better off with the Enterprise-E, imo.

 

[HaventGotALife]

The Enterprise-E is rather disgusting looking, but the idea of having family members and being a "city in the sky" doesn't exactly work in the Dominion War. Of course, there were plenty of Galaxy-Class ships on the Dominion frontlines, but that never made any sense in DS9. I think the Enterprise-E was a good addition to the movie franchise.

 

[Dukhat]

Let me ask you this....when Star Trek The Motion Picture came out, do you believe that it shouldn't have been refitted or should they have used the exact same ship that was used in the the original TV series??

To compare the Enterprise-D/Enterprise-E to the TOS vs. TMP refit is not a valid comparison at all. Here's why:

1. Mike Minor and Joe Jennings never liked the design of the TOS Enterprise, especially the nacelles. To my knowledge, there wasn't any dislike about the Enterprise-D's design other than that we'd seen it for seven years.

2. There was a whole generation gap between 60's TOS design ethics and 70's TMP design ethics. In contrast, Generations debuted literally right after TNG went off the air, so the design ethics were exactly the same.

3. The TMP Enterprise is far more believable and detailed model than the TOS Enterprise was, because during TOS, nobody had any illusions that the show would be so popular that feature films would eventually be made about it. I'm sorry die-hard TOS fans, but to have used the TOS Enterprise in TMP would have just not worked (and I'm referrring to 70's film technology, not what we have now).

 

[Tora Ziyal]

I personally wish the hadn't blown up the Ent-D in Generations. That ship was the one we had seen through the entire television series on which the movies were based - it had a history, and the audience had seen it survive through many close scrapes. I think Picard's anger at the thought of losing the Enterprise to the Borg would have be much more dramatic if it had been the Enterprise-D.

I'm with you 100 percent.