Engineering's curved hallways

[jayrath]

So many get bent out of shape over this, so let's examine it and see if we can put it to rest.

Everyone knows that engineering is "downstairs," somewhere in the secondary hull, right? We hear that in dialogue. And yet we often see that the hallway leading to it is curved. So it must be in the round primary hull. Or maybe it's a second engineering section in the primary hull. Maybe it's a duplicate engineering room. Maybe it's for impulse. Maybe -- and so on. You see this in many other threads.

I think this is all limited thinking. I prefer to think that starship designers merely like curved hallways, all over the Connies. The primary hull's hallways could as easily have been laid out as a grid. Instead, they're curved. So, too, are many of our contemporary suburban streets; instead of running straight, they often curve and meander.

Think about it. Let's say you live in a spacegoing community of 400. A curved hallway gives you a tiny sense of community, of neighborhood. Otherwise, you've got an endless hall, and anyone down at the other end can see you in your space jammies when you run across to see your neighbor or use the lavatory.

So I say that that the secondary hull must be filled with curved hallways. No problem!

 

[MarsWeeps]

So many get bent out of shape over this,

Funny, you're the first person I've ever heard mention it!

 

[JB2005]

So many get bent out of shape over this,

Funny, you're the first person I've ever heard mention it!

To be fair, Jayrath has been here over a decade

I'm guessing that the entire ship has curved hallways because wiring and so forth is hidden in the curves?

 

[MarsWeeps]

To be fair, Jayrath has been here over a decade

So where are all the posts that he is referring to? Has it been mentioned recently?

Maybe some of the hallways are curved around the warp core, wherever that is.

 

[jayrath]

Forgive me for not being able to search the other threads and offer citations. Anway, the original problem remains. Why are the engineering hallways curved? My guess is that it was for aesthetic reasons.

 

[Mysterion]

I've just written off to them only having the one corridor set and gotten on with my life. Of course engineering is in the secondary hull.

 

[Captain Tracy]

Think about it. Let's say you live in a spacegoing community of 400. A curved hallway gives you a tiny sense of community, of neighborhood. Otherwise, you've got an endless hall, and anyone down at the other end can see you in your space jammies when you run across to see your neighbor or use the lavatory.

JAYRATH - I think this part of your post is a brilliant observation, and in reality would be - in my opinion - an absolutely critical design element psychologically.

I personally can't imagine being able to 'keep it together' at all, if I was asked to live aboard a Starship; with the knowledge there is no way off until the ship docks at a Space Station, or you happen to draw Shore-Leave liberty or a landing party detail ( a party which you do NOT want to wear Red),... no way! I would eventually freak out - I can no longer do the flight to Hawaii, and Australia & Japan are TOTALLY out of the question,... even what used to be 'routine' trips from NYC to LAX are getting 'dicey' for me these days.

SO,.. if a Starship designer was intending to put people in an encapsulated environment for possibly months at a time,... something like CURVED HALLWAYS would be essential for all the reason you so brilliantly pointed out.

Endless straight hallways,... as far as the eye can see,... trapped on-board,... no ability to 'get off at the next corner',... can't breathe,... panic-attack immanent !!!

So, I am not one to 'argue' where a wholly fictional engineering section is supposed to located on a wholly fictional Starship; being in a reality an ever-changing TV studio set ,...

HOWEVER, I would ask those 'in-the-know' to address this question:

If the primary engineering section is 'supposed to be' located in the secondary hull section, why then - from the perspective of the typical TV viewer - does the rear wall section of the 'engine room' only seem to logically line-up with and match the exterior of the impulse engine located just aft of the main Saucer-section?

Perhaps this is where the 'debate' comes from?

 

[Timo]

I don't really see any sort of a match there... Engineering has this long triangular tunnel that may or may not narrow down towards the end (the forced perspective doesn't work all that well because of all the camera angles used). But if the tunnel is supposed to match the highest part of that fancy exterior structure, then we fail to see Engineering itself jut out from the top of the saucer - and it the lower part, then from the undercut bottom! That is, unless the ship is actually somewhat bigger than we thought. But if anything, it was originally designed to be smaller than it ended up being...

Curved hallways may go round large pieces of equipment. Or then they may actually be straight and we only mistake them for curved in the two episodes featuring them, the same way we mistake all the curved hallways in the saucer for having the exact same degree of curvature even when they obviously have to represent a number of different curvatures and radii.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[scotpens]

SO,.. if a Starship designer was intending to put people in an encapsulated environment for possibly months at a time,... something like CURVED HALLWAYS would be essential for all the reason you so brilliantly pointed out.

Endless straight hallways,... as far as the eye can see,... trapped on-board,... no ability to 'get off at the next corner',... can't breathe,... panic-attack imminent !!!

Submarine crews in today’s navies may remain underwater, isolated from the rest of humanity, for weeks or even months at a time. The interior arrangements of nuclear subs are designed for practicality and maximum use of available space. Curved corridors in a cigar-shaped outer hull would be tremendously wasteful of space.

Anyone who’s prone to claustrophobia or panic attacks in such an environment has no business serving on a submarine — or a starship.

The Enterprise had curved corridors leading to the Engineering section because of the layout of the sets on Desilu’s Stage 9.

Damn that reality, screwing with our heads again!

 

[Tiberius]

Engineering is in the engineering section, so said Matt Jefferies.

 

[Captain Tracy]

Submarine crews in today’s navies may remain underwater, isolated from the rest of humanity, for weeks or even months at a time.

STOP!!!!!!! My chest is tighter than an alter-boy's arse before confession with Father Flannigan!!!!!

Air,.. I need AIR!!!! Must get outside!!!!!!

LOL!

 

[The Castellan]

SO,.. if a Starship designer was intending to put people in an encapsulated environment for possibly months at a time,... something like CURVED HALLWAYS would be essential for all the reason you so brilliantly pointed out.

Endless straight hallways,... as far as the eye can see,... trapped on-board,... no ability to 'get off at the next corner',... can't breathe,... panic-attack imminent !!!

Submarine crews in today’s navies may remain underwater, isolated from the rest of humanity, for weeks or even months at a time. The interior arrangements of nuclear subs are designed for practicality and maximum use of available space. Curved corridors in a cigar-shaped outer hull would be tremendously wasteful of space.

Anyone who’s prone to claustrophobia or panic attacks in such an environment has no business serving on a submarine — or a starship.

The Enterprise had curved corridors leading to the Engineering section because of the layout of the sets on Desilu’s Stage 9.

Damn that reality, screwing with our heads again!

Well, I would suggest stop comparing life on a Starfleet ship to today's military vessels. the life styles are like bananas to pineapples.

 

[Timo]

Indeed, the average submarine for a long time has featured (pseudo-)wooden paneling for purely psychological reasons. If one could, one would build corridors that look like forest paths (only without the puddles and the mosquitoes) - but that sort of luxury still doesn't come cheap in the TOS era. The best they can do is onboard gardens, featured in several episodes.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mytran]

The issue of why Engineering's corridor's are curved tends to crop up in threads that deal with the mapping out of the interior of the Enterprise. The most recent example might be in BLSDWLF's thread, but it also got mentioned in CARY L BROWN's plans, and SHAW's (as far as I remember, anyway. It has been a while since I read them!)

 

[Timo]

...Suffice to say, the curved corridor set can be made to fit transversely within the engineering hull, at the popular estimates on the ship's dimensions. It's just a matter of whether one would want to.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[AtoZ]

Before somebody who knows better steps in and corrects me because this point may have been brought up elsewhere or sometime during the Bush years, consider the possibility that we saw two near duplicates of Engineering (the one without the metallic ladder and 2nd level in season 1) and the one with the metallic ladder and Scotty's perched office.

Also, in The Alternative Factor, we saw yet another variation of Engineering's extension as it applied to the ship, manned by a hot "blue shirt" with great legs. We didn't see the large set with the forced perspective, but it does gives us a notion that "Engineering" isn't limited to one location on the Enterprise.

 

[T'Girl]

Curved corridors in a cigar-shaped outer hull

That's why the new movie Enterprise is over eight thousand feet long, lots of room for curving corridors in the engineering section. And a brewery too.

 

[jayrath]

Submarine crews in today’s navies may remain underwater, isolated from the rest of humanity, for weeks or even months at a time. The interior arrangements of nuclear subs are designed for practicality and maximum use of available space. Curved corridors in a cigar-shaped outer hull would be tremendously wasteful of space.

We're talking about a five year mission, not "months." Anyway, a modern submarine is a straight pipe, divided into decks. It has to follow that form, to travel through water. But a ship in space, not bound to any aero- (or hydro) dynamic? And what wasted space in the 1701? We've already seen curved walls, curved ceilings, curved closets for heaven's sake.

Or are you suggesting that contemporary submarines not be tubes, but long blocks -- something like a massive 2x4, underwater? By your reasoning, that is the most "practical" design.

 

[Captain Tracy]

Submarine crews in today’s navies may remain underwater, isolated from the rest of humanity, for weeks or even months at a time. The interior arrangements of nuclear subs are designed for practicality and maximum use of available space. Curved corridors in a cigar-shaped outer hull would be tremendously wasteful of space.

JAYRATH - That is not MY quote.

The author of that which you have assigned to me from the keyboard of SCOTPEN

Please check the origianl source and make the correction.

TIP: You can always, by-in-large, tell the authenticity of a CAPTAIN TRACY post; as they, on-the-whole, will employ a high degree of accuracy with regard to: content, style, and punctuation - not to mention: wit, wisdom, and general 'snarkiness'.

 

[A beaker full of death]

I don't care what Jeffries said in later years, the shipboard conventions depicted in Star Trek were intended to be something the WWII-veteran tv-viewing public could understand and relate to. Space on board ship was at a premium (let alone on s SPACE SHIP). They wouldn't dick around with odd-shaped corridors for the hell of it.