Engineering's curved hallways

[Nerys Myk]

I don't care what Jeffries said in later years, the shipboard conventions depicted in Star Trek were intended to be something the WWII-veteran tv-viewing public could understand and relate to. Space on board ship was at a premium (let alone on s SPACE SHIP). They woulidn't dick around with odd-shaped corridors for the hell of it.

While I agree that the curves corridors were meant to indicate locations in the primary hull, I would hesitate to say the ship was designed to show space was at a premium.

The corridors were pretty wide and tall. Not unlike a hotel or apartment building. No ducking your head or turning sideways to pass.

Then there is the dance floor/engineering room.

 

[nightwind1]

I've just written off to them only having the one corridor set and gotten on with my life. Of course engineering is in the secondary hull.

Nope. I've always gone with Fraz Joseph's layout, with Engineering at the aft end of the Primary Hull.

 

[scotpens]

We're talking about a five year mission, not "months."

But we assume no member of the crew was confined to the ship for the entire 5 years.

Or are you suggesting that contemporary submarines not be tubes, but long blocks -- something like a massive 2x4, underwater? By your reasoning, that is the most "practical" design.

Read my post again. Of course a submarine has to have a hydrodynamic shape. The Enterprise’s engineering hull is roughly cylindrical because it looks cool. I was talking about making the most efficient use of available space.

TIP: You can always, by-in-large, tell the authenticity of a CAPTAIN TRACY post; as they, on-the-whole, will employ a high degree of accuracy with regard to: content, style, and punctuation - not to mention: wit, wisdom, and general 'snarkiness'.

The phrase is “by and large.”

While I agree that the curves corridors were meant to indicate locations in the primary hull, I would hesitate to say the ship was designed to show space was at a premium.

The corridors were pretty wide and tall. Not unlike a hotel or apartment building. No ducking your head or turning sideways to pass.

They had to be roomy enough to accomodate a camera dolly, microphone boom, trailing cables and filming crew. No Steadicams in those days.

 

[Captain Tracy]

Quite right! By-and-Large, it is! Who said you can't learn anything from STAR TREK,... ancient nautical terms ABOUND!

LOL!

 

[Nerys Myk]

While I agree that the curves corridors were meant to indicate locations in the primary hull, I would hesitate to say the ship was designed to show space was at a premium.

The corridors were pretty wide and tall. Not unlike a hotel or apartment building. No ducking your head or turning sideways to pass.

They had to be roomy enough to accomodate a camera dolly, microphone boom, trailing cables and filming crew. No Steadicams in those days.

A fact I'm aware of.

 

[Mytran]

However, the fact remains that the hallways were (and remained throughout later incarnations) 8 feet wide and at least 8 feet high. This is what appeared on our screens for 40 years. Even Franz Joseph (who took many liberties with the layout and design of rooms) kept to these dimensions.

As to the (in universe) reasons why - that's another matter entirely!

 

[Timo]

"Engineering" isn't limited to one location on the Enterprise.

Indeed, it would be quite possible and relatively easy to fit something like six Engineering sets in the secondary hull, e.g. one at each end of a trio of longitudal shafts ("warp cores") that would tie to each other with those prominent angled tubes on the shaft walls. And each location could be symmetrically expanded so that the visible set would only represent the portside or starboard half of the whole. That would cover most of the variation in the (factually single) set seen during the run of the show, while still leaving much of the engineering hull empty.

Clearly, the one interpretation that is not plausible is that Engineering would consist only of that single set. It's said to be a maze where one could hide basically indefinitely, after all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SonicRanger]

The curved ceiling of the Engineering set clearly suggests it was located along the top of the secondary hull. This curvature is replicated in the films for the horizontal part of the warp core.

 

[Timo]

...And, funnily enough, the TMP set also works best if we ignore the forced perspective for the back wall shaft and interpret it as being just as short as it really was. That way, the unfortunate corridor towards the bow (another poorly working matte) fits inside the secondary hull nicely enough.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[A beaker full of death]

Quite right! By-and-Large, it is! Who said you can't learn anything from STAR TREK,... ancient nautical terms ABOUND!

LOL!

It's funny. When I studied admiralty law the professor was this old salt with one arm. He told about how land lubbers would come aboard ship well versed in port vs. starboard, and the captain would just say "turn right!"

 

[Mysterion]

I've just written off to them only having the one corridor set and gotten on with my life. Of course engineering is in the secondary hull.

Nope. I've always gone with Fraz Joseph's layout, with Engineering at the aft end of the Primary Hull.

Sorry but, IMO, FJs layout of the Constitution Class starship creates amny more problems than it solves.

 

[GSchnitzer]

Those Enterprise corridors are just filled with curves!

 

[scotpens]

It's funny. When I studied admiralty law the professor was this old salt with one arm.

Let me guess -- his other arm was bitten off by a shark. Or a big white whale.

He told about how land lubbers would come aboard ship well versed in port vs. starboard, and the captain would just say "turn right!"

Left and right full (or X degrees) rudder have been the standard commands since World War I.

And sailors don't learn to "box the compass" anymore either.

Those Enterprise corridors are just filled with curves!

Couldn't resist the obvious, eh?

 

[A beaker full of death]

It's funny. When I studied admiralty law the professor was this old salt with one arm.

Let me guess -- his other arm was bitten off by a shark. Or a big white whale.

Did I mention the eyepatch?

ok, but the arm thing is true. I always assumed it was the war.

EDIT: Well, damn. I just googled him and found his obit.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00EFDC163AF936A25752C0A96E9C8B63

 

[Timo]

Left and right full (or X degrees) rudder have been the standard commands since World War I.

...Replacing "starboard" and "port", respectively. And that's not an error.

Realistically, command language in the 3D battlescape of Star Trek should have room for more directional commands than just "right/left" and/or "port/starboard". Seagoing ships have just two degrees of freedom: left/right and forward/aft; "port/starboard" is currently reserved for bearings rather than maneuvers. But a spacegoing ship of the Star Trek type would have significantly more degrees of freedom, including turns to right/left, translations to right/left, turns to up/down, translations to up/down, and then translations forward/aft, and then roll.

It's thus very good that ST6 told us that they at least use "right/left" in parallel with "port/starboard"...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[TIN_MAN]

Left and right full (or X degrees) rudder have been the standard commands since World War I.

...Replacing "starboard" and "port", respectively. And that's not an error.

Realistically, command language in the 3D battlescape of Star Trek should have room for more directional commands than just "right/left" and/or "port/starboard". Seagoing ships have just two degrees of freedom: left/right and forward/aft; "port/starboard" is currently reserved for bearings rather than maneuvers. But a spacegoing ship of the Star Trek type would have significantly more degrees of freedom, including turns to right/left, translations to right/left, turns to up/down, translations to up/down, and then translations forward/aft, and then roll.

It's thus very good that ST6 told us that they at least use "right/left" in parallel with "port/starboard"...

Timo Saloniemi

Basically they do, hence the "mark" between so many degrees up or down and right/left etc. But still, I agree, the reference system should have been worked out a little more thoroughly.

 

[scotpens]

Left and right full (or X degrees) rudder have been the standard commands since World War I.

...Replacing "starboard" and "port", respectively. And that's not an error.

That was true in the days of sail, when steering commands were tiller commands.

To come full starboard (right) the tiller would be swung as far as possible to the port (left), opposite of the intended direction. On a ship with a modern helm, the wheel (or more recently, the joystick) is turned in the intended direction of travel.

 

[Timo]

...It's just that the Royal Navy didn't quite come to grips with this until some time after WWI!

Which makes life all the more interesting for historians comparing German and British naval logs against each other in retracing the battles; it's best to hold a mirror to one set of logs. It might also have caused complications in convoy, because British military and merchant sailors switched between terminologies at different times after the war.

Another thing differentiating the sea from the outer space is that the horizon at least provides one absolute. If nothing else, it prevents one ship's port from being another's starboard when the two have the same heading; no such comfort for ships in space, with their ability to roll at will!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[gastrof]

I've just written off to them only having the one corridor set and gotten on with my life. Of course engineering is in the secondary hull.

Your position on this is dangerous, and you're on the verge of letting reality bleed into our Trek-universe discussions.

Stop. Now. Please. Before some of the less-entrenched of us are affected by your thinking, and they end up sliding away to becoming Babylon 5 fans or something.

 

[3D-Freemason]

Those Enterprise corridors are just filled with curves!

Awesome! I was just looking for a Classic Corridor shot as reference to help design a 'Captain's Announcement' scene for my little film ''Beyond Antares'' and it turned out to be posted by the guys that inspired my entire project to start with! (Phase II crew) ;~) (I clicked on it in Google images & it brought me to familiar ground)!
This is my initial camera placement before going to look for reference;