Engine Room(s) on the TOS Enterprise (revisited)

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Henoch, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Firebird

    Firebird Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  2. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Ever notice the red/orange glowing ceiling panels in the pipe structure? That is the electro-plasma power conduit (warp core-like feature) that's about 90' long.
    [​IMG]
    The saucer undercut is a bitch to put the pipes (full scale) in the saucer. If you down scale it by about 10%, it might fit, or use the bigger Enterprise (1080'). Blssdwlf did a lot of work with the pipe structure in the saucer. He ended up sticking in the FP pipes.:shrug:
    No. The images that the links give are gone. Old pictures get moved or deleted. I copied a bunch of them onto my computer before they vanished. Lucky me. :shifty:
     
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  3. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Thanks for the great work. I thought it came from someone on this site, I just couldn't remember. They must have used two different Stages for CAGE and WNMHGB? The step down in WNMHGB is not in CAGE. Maybe you have a good idea where the Captain Pike's Quarters/Cabin are at (besides in a Studio at one time. :lol:)
     
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  4. Firebird

    Firebird Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    For The Cage, they still used stages 15 and 16 at Desliu-Culver, but the Bridge was by itself on 15, all the other Enterprise sets were on 16. I put this together from a couple screencaps that shows the extent of the Stage 16 sets, except for the Transporter Room to the right, couldn't get a decent shot from that side:

    [​IMG]

    Basically, they had the three sets adjacent to each other, connected by the bit of corridor. The briefing room stayed in the same spot, that second A-frame between Pike and the briefing room was moved elsewhere in the set in WMNHGB. What was the door for Pike's quarters became the turbolift door.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
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  5. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Boy, those A-Frame dividers really get in the way. Hunter's practively walking down the middle of the corridor and his shoulder in bumping into it. Single file only on my ship.
     
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  6. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  7. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wait...is that sign by the captain's door embossed metal? I'd never seen it in HD before, but the letters appear to be standing proud.

    In SD, it just looked like marker pen on a piece of paper glued to the wall. Such a great design choice, wasted on 1960s television audience
     
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  8. Mres_was_framed!

    Mres_was_framed! Commander Red Shirt

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    So what I'm wondering is then, (on the ship, in-universe) is there actually one engine room that uses the forced-perspective and is therefore long (secondary hull), and one that is shorter, looking like the set as built in real life (saucer)? Could that be used to tell which engine room we are seeing in a given episode, based on camera angles used?
     
  9. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    That's up to you. They filmed the engine room in too many angles for me to imagine a "long" pipes area so I stuck with the forced-perspective short version. But YMMV and I say run with it! :)
     
  10. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Still playing around, added some turbo lifts, red anti-ray screens, hangar features and a few 26' shuttlecraft just for size perspective, the E never carried more than 2 on screen, but Exeter had 4. Note that the "garaged" shuttle on the port side could be the location of the Galileo from Journey to Babel with armed security detail and Kirk, Spock, McCoy greeting Sarek and Amanda from the starboard side "airlock". It fits nicely. Note I stuck the ion pods in, even though I hated the retcon. Used a couple of slanted walls in the hangar to pay homage to the shuttlebay/flight deck above. To get to the hangar, there is a step down, don't know the drop distance, so, I just put in some stairs in the corridor. The port/starboard rooms against the hull next to the engine room are (male/female?) large restrooms/showers/lockers for the deck.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've been bouncing this idea around for the last few days, wondering how it would work in practise (assuming that Starfleet had a really important reason for such an extensive remodelling). The animated GIF I posted of the S1/S2 changes was a quick'n'dirty mockup I created NINE YEARS ago after all, so it's due a revisit.

    Due to the need to match the Engine Room/corridor footprint, I had to distort the entry foyer of the S1 Engine Room considerably. In reality (matching the corridor scenes in Naked Time and Ultimate Computer and putting the Engine Room on the 180 degree line) , the overlay would look like this:

    [​IMG]
    Obviously there is quite a gap between the S1 door and the corridor there!

    Looking again at Robert_Comsol's layout of Pike's cabin gave me an idea - what if there was an entry foyer to the S1 Engine Room? Fortunately (thanks to the heavy wall thickness and design) there was never one instance of us looking into the Engine Room from the corridor directly:
    [​IMG]
    A small stretch of wall can be viewed from inside but nothing which definitively marks it as belonging to the main corridor:
    [​IMG]
    Therefore, I propose that in Season One there was an entry foyer to the saucer Engine Room, which probably connected to other crucial engineering facilities. So in TNT when Riley locked the engineering door, he locked ALL the engineering doors! It also helps explain why Scotty's task was so delicate - that component he was cutting through to was probably the central security node for the engine deck and did was not designed to be easily tampered with!

    After Space Seed but prior to The Changeling, there was an extensive upgrade to the Enterprise's engineering facilities to bring it into line with many other ships of her class. This was long overdue as the Enterprise still retained many of her features from Pike's era. While the turboshaft network was largely untouched, various mods & corridor extensions over the years had led to clusters of elevator stop points in certain areas of the ship - the forward-portside engineering corridor being one of these. The elevator stop system was streamlined and made more efficient, with a new turbolift stop point added to the southern corridor adjacent to the saucer Engine Room. The corridor opposite the new Engine Room doors was extended to allow easier access to the Jefferies Tube. Finally, a tri-ladder tube was installed to provide faster transfer between the saucer engineering decks.
    [​IMG]

    I have had to make a few tweaks to the Season One Engine Room, most noteably the angle of the door and the length of the corridor end wall. However, it fits far better than I ever could have imagined!

    Nice work! I get that you're not going for strict screen accuracy here, so the inclusion little details like the JTB airlock are excellent little treats for the keen observer (and the extended wall to the right is also very screen accurate!)
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
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  12. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Another excellent animation showing the engineering refit. Much better than before. The foyer is a great idea and it solves the angle problem to the corridor. :techman:
    Even in the secondary hull, I could drop this layout into my engine room sketch with no problems. I really enjoy using the design exercise of "one degree of separation" from the studio sets. For example, the ladder down to the small room under the EMM and joins with a corridor seen on screen in "Mirror, Mirror". The corridor must be on the side of the engine room running parallel to the engine room. Also, the head height is more than you would expect, so, the corridor must have a couple steps down from the entrance to engineering. By putting the lower level of the engine room on the deck or 1/2 deck immediately below the centerline of the secondary hull, note a row of windows that is even lower on the outside, but with a few steps down, these windows can be in a long observation corridor on the way to the hangar. The hangar is another 1/2 deck down, so, another set of stairs down at the end of the pipe room is needed. The pipe room floor is also lowered to the floor level under the EMM. More room for the vast maze of conduits and pipes carrying power to the many ship systems. (Counting pipes nearer the floor area, there are three pipes stacked, 5 sets of them, right and left inputs/outputs, so, a minimum of 15 pipes on each side of the pipe structure. Plus, pipes are going up and out thru the roof.) The start of the EPS with plasma conduit valving instead of electrical wire switches. The weakest part is the damn curved corridor. :barf2:
    The shuttle stowed in the hangar garage plus airlock matches the screenshots from TrekCore better than I could imagine, but I have to re-watch the video to see if other features/corridors show up. For example, behind Kirk when he is talking to Sarek shows some vertical pipes on a wall. I envision this to be pipes running up and down along the outer hull bulkhead. Note that the Sarek/Amanda tour of engineering is "later" since Spock had time to change uniforms, ditch Bones and get back down to engineering, so, no need to link with the trip from the shuttle hangar.:vulcan:
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  13. Firebird

    Firebird Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Try this on for size. I combined the set plans for Balance of Terror and the partial construction drawings for the conference room to create what would've been the set layout for early season 1:
    [​IMG]

    Notice, just like with the WNMHGB corridor, there's a section left open to the soundstage opposite the briefing room & Kirk's quarters (there's an additional fake doorway between those two sets that was removed by the 6th episode of S1). If you closely watch the early S1 episodes, the camera conviently steers clear of that section, or shoots from that area of the set. In Charlie X, that section that Charlie blinks out of existence was merely the part of the set left open, with a wild wall flat with greebles and other tech-looking things on the end.
     
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  14. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Nice Mytran. That's a clever idea! :techman:

     
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  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is out of my wheelhouse, so I'm asking: why is the transporter shown as having nine pads?
     
  16. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The airlock itself is fairly plain, the pipes aren't seen until the party step out through the triangular doorway. That pipes wall was probably just a flat they had around, something for Shatner to stand in front of for his closeup. The outer bulkhead in your setplan is as good a place as any ;)

    I miss that fake door, it at least made more sense that the additional corridor junction added there in S2!

    I've never found an explanation for this - it's an oddity that shows up in both extant versions of the S1 set plans (Balance of Terror and Charlie X). The Transporter Room had 6 pads going all the way back to The Cage after all! Did no-one really notice, and who drew it anyway? The Season 2 setplans all show it correctly though.
     
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  17. BK613

    BK613 Commodore Commodore

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    Makes one wonder if at some point nine was going to be the number and the drawing was just reused. Or maybe they were going go to nine for WNHGB but the idea got shelved for cost.
     
  18. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In t he shots from "Tne Naked Time" and "Court Martial" the wall panels on each side of the door look different. Thus either the wall panels were changed between "The Naked Time" and "Court Martial" or else two different Engine rooms were seen in "The Naked Time" and "Court Martial".
     
  19. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    If the corridor looks like an obvious curve, then in the saucer. If you can't tell if curved or straight-ish, then it could be in the secondary hull.
     
  20. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not just the details beside the door, but there's an entire turbolift missing!
    https://i.imgur.com/CyOD27n.jpg[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I don't see the scene in Court Martial (lower picture above) as suggesting a different Engine Room, just Kirk entering the foyer from the deck above.

    Both Naked Time and Court Martial featured long stretches of curved corridors, FWIW
    I suppose that leaves the possibly of the Enemy Within Engine Room being in the Engineering Hull (hence the "lower levels") and possibly Space Seed? It might explain the sudden appearance of the billy club things that Kirk uses to beat up Khan with.