Engine Room(s) on the TOS Enterprise (revisited)

[Mytran]

I just reviewed blssdwlf's work on the force perspective pipe structure. He showed it to be ~90 feet. Has anyone heard what the set designers were shooting for its length?

I just did a quick'n'dirty extrapolation of the length for the purpose of this thread, but the supposed length can vary depending on where the FP structure is supposed to be viewed from (which most directors never stuck to of course). 90 feet for the tube structure plus a bit more for the wall in the far distance is still in the ballpark though (and certainly fits neatly into the ship).

So, here's one more refinement with a small curved corridor, large hazardous deflector machinery and a 90' pipe structure just for the lower engine room. The back wall of the pipe structure is right at the front of the nacelle pylons for this size hull I'm using (no idea what size ship, but I think it's around the 947' size.) The white space at the stern is the hangar deck (one deck down from the flight deck or Shuttlebay).

Nice matching of the corridor to the curve of the deflector systems. Maybe some more curved walls nearby would further sell the concept?
I'd expect some big red lines on that straight corridor leading to the deflector machinery room though, yikes!

 

[Henoch]

Just popping in to say this may be the nerdiest thread in TrekBBS history, and I am loving these efforts to fit the actual sets into the interior of the USS Enterprise.

Thanks, King. You probably already know this one, but if anyone wants more nerd time, check out Robert Comsol's old stuff: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Some of the features are set accurate, but other areas like the port side curved corridor, and the long observation corridors are just a homage to the original set concepts. This old pilot set is going in somewhere in the secondary hull:

 

[Henoch]

I'd expect some big red lines on that straight corridor leading to the deflector machinery room though, yikes!

Near the machinery are those red, hexagon screens to stop the rays. I'm thinking of putting in a thick door at the end of the straight corridor, too, but I got tired at 2:36 AM. Note: no doors (or anything else) in the stern. I'm thinking on narrowing the engine room utility and hangar spaces to line up with the notches in the fantail. And add corridors/turblifts, and add hangar, put in some shuttlecraft, paint a red strip at the top of all the corridors ......................<snooze>................... Sorry, I just dozed off, again.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Thanks, King. You probably already know this one, but if anyone wants more nerd time, check out Robert Comsol's old stuff: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Some of the features are set accurate, but other areas like the port side curved corridor, and the long observation corridors are just a homage to the original set concepts. This old pilot set is going in somewhere in the secondary hull:

I liked to think the round briefing room was on Deck 2 or 3 below the bridge. And what we saw of Pike's quarters in the pilot as the captain's ready room/sea cabin. An old-time member, whose name escapes me right now, did blueprints that had something similar.

 

[Henoch]

I liked to think the round briefing room was on Deck 2 or 3 below the bridge. And what we saw of Pike's quarters in the pilot as the captain's ready room/sea cabin. An old-time member, whose name escapes me right now, did blueprints that had something similar.

I agree 100% with you. I just thought that the straight hall and both the transporter room and side door turbolift is possible in the engineering hull. The "blinking green light" coming into Pike's 2nd deck day cabin window was from the starboard green running light. How annoying; I'd close that shutter. Notice the command chair (slash bar) with the recording fiberoptic gizmo on the gimbal for doing log entries and taking communications. If visual, the tri-sided TV console can rotate to be seen from his chair or from his daybed or his desk between the door and chair. You can't see it (in the forth wall), is a washroom door somewhere behind the chair.

 

[Mytran]

Some of the features are set accurate, but other areas like the port side curved corridor, and the long observation corridors are just a homage to the original set concepts. This old pilot set is going in somewhere in the secondary hull:

This recreation of the WNMHGB set is gorgeous and I don't recall seeing it before - your own work?

I agree 100% with you. I just thought that the straight hall and both the transporter room and side door turbolift is possible in the engineering hull. The "blinking green light" coming into Pike's 2nd deck day cabin window was from the starboard green running light. How annoying; I'd close that shutter.

If that green panel was a window I'd be less concerned about light pollution and more concerned about the thickness of the walls - they're practically paper-thin!

Compare that to the more definite windows in Conscience Of The King - much safer!

So if not a window in Pike's cabin, what is it? As observed upthread, the panel does pulse with a steady green light throughout the scene, but not until Dr Boyce enters and switches on that gizmo with the transparent rod. Prior to this, the panel is just a steady green. Afterwards - the gizmo and panel slowly flash green in tandem. Is it possible it's some sort of "relax-o-panel" instead?

 

[Henoch]

This recreation of the WNMHGB set is gorgeous and I don't recall seeing it before - your own work?

I don't have that talent. Can't remember where I got it, probably off someone on this site.

If that green panel was a window I'm be less concerned about light pollution and more concerned about the thickness of the walls - they're practically paper-thin!

The hull is very thick in Pike's cabin. The structure just outside the thin part is hull thickness. At the far left in the window, you see a sliver of the edge of the hull. The hull is about 18" thick. The reflected green light is illuminating that straight cut-in of the hull. Since it is illuminated and not in shadow, his cabin window must be in the back half of the row of windows on deck 2, maybe the last one. When they remastered it, they added something stupid there.

 

[blssdwlf]

That transparent piece doesn't look flush with the opening and the opening doesn't appear to have any depth cues like the observation deck windows. It's either a really deep opening to something or it's a flush glow panel and the transparent piece is a protective cover...

This recreation of the WNMHGB set is gorgeous and I don't recall seeing it before - your own work?

If that green panel was a window I'd be less concerned about light pollution and more concerned about the thickness of the walls - they're practically paper-thin!

So if not a window in Pike's cabin, what is it? As observed upthread, the panel does pulse with a steady green light throughout the scene, but not until Dr Boyce enters and switches on that gizmo with the transparent rod. Prior to this, the panel is just a steady green. Afterwards - the gizmo and panel slowly flash green in tandem. Is it possible it's some sort of "relax-o-panel" instead?

 

[Mytran]

The hull is very thick in Pike's cabin. The structure just outside the thin part is hull thickness. At the far left in the window, you see a sliver of the edge of the hull. The hull is about 18" thick.

Something like this?

I entirely agree that the hull is that thick. But in every other depiction of viewports throughout the franchise, the "glass" is situated towards the outer hull, not the inner. Possibly an example of pilot episode error?

The reflected green light is illuminating that straight cut-in of the hull. Since it is illuminated and not in shadow, his cabin window must be in the back half of the row of windows on deck 2, maybe the last one. When they remastered it, they added something stupid there.

Ahem to that last sentence! But the green glow definitely does not start to pulse until Boyce switches the gizmo on. And when it's not lit, it's a distinctly pale colour, not the black of space.

That transparent piece doesn't look flush with the opening and the opening doesn't appear to have any depth cues like the observation deck windows. It's either a really deep opening to something or it's a flush glow panel and the transparent piece is a protective cover...

We're veering into 1960s set construction territory here but I like it!
It seems that they simply bolted a flat sheet of perspex onto the curved wall and shot the scene from the side. That way, the "window panel" would appear to have a sill on 3 sides, where as in fact we are just seeing the shadow in the gap formed from a flat sheet on a curved surface.

I think

 

[Henoch]

Yes, you guys are right again. It had me confused in the screen shots. I see the three mounting pins/pegs on the bottom and top. Semi-transparent screen. Green light projected on it from the front is my guess. Not rear projection. It looks like it could run projected video and see it from the chair. The green light is probably the "nothing screen" on default. The room was kind of dark and Piper just turned it on for some light to mix the martinis and have a discussion; I don't think this was his first time. Or was the FX team trying to fake us out to make it look like a window? Don't you wish we could still talk with them, sometimes.

 

[Mytran]

Oh absolutely! I love decoding how they created visual effects back in the day.

It's a little redundant now but I also made this diagram:

 

[blssdwlf]

@Mytran - Yes that's what I think it looks like too. What's behind the green/white panel could be just projection lights. The perspex panel if you want to imagine could be a flat screen display that isn't in use or just a cover for the panel to keep the smudges away

Oh absolutely! I love decoding how they created visual effects back in the day.

It's a little redundant now but I also made this diagram:

 

[Henoch]

Thanks, guys. So we are all in agreement, when the green light's on, it's martini time.

 

[BK613]

Good catch on the perplex.
Now trying to decide if the beige wall behind Pike is flat and parallel to the bed. I mean, it looks like the bookshelf curves around to a hard corner.

 

[Henoch]

Good catch on the perplex.
Now trying to decide if the beige wall behind Pike is flat and parallel to the bed. I mean, it looks like the bookshelf curves around to a hard corner.

I have never seen a really good layout of his day cabin. I've seen the round floor plan cartoon, but it is lacking. I'm sure it is supposed to be on the second deck due to the curved walls. If the round conference room is either aft, center or fwd in the bubble would help. I think CAGE and WNMHGB round conference rooms were set up differently. CAGE had one way in and out suggesting it was against a bulkhead, while Kirk had two doors suggesting dead center under the bridge. I have never seen a stage blueprint for CAGE.

 

[blssdwlf]

Good catch on the perplex.
Now trying to decide if the beige wall behind Pike is flat and parallel to the bed. I mean, it looks like the bookshelf curves around to a hard corner.

Yes, I think it is a flat wall because of the hard corner from the curved book shelf section that you point out.

I think CAGE and WNMHGB round conference rooms were set up differently. CAGE had one way in and out suggesting it was against a bulkhead, while Kirk had two doors suggesting dead center under the bridge. I have never seen a stage blueprint for CAGE.

Even though we see everyone exit the Cage Conference room from the door on the right there is also a door on the left (visible when we have a close-up of Spock and the doctor.) So there are at least 2 ways in at the 10 and 2 o'clock positions. But that's not the conference room near Pike's quarters.

If you look at the one near his quarters you can see the doors go through in a 12 and 6 o'clock fashion suggesting it's a different conference room.

Any idea where the 2nd door is on the WNMHGB conference room? I can see the one at 12 o'clock but the camera doesn't pan around too much to show what's behind Kirk's chair.

 

[Henoch]

Any idea where the 2nd door is on the WNMHGB conference room? I can see the one at 12 o'clock but the camera doesn't pan around too much to show what's behind Kirk's chair.

I only have the WNMHGB stage sketch provided above; It shows doors at 180 degrees apart.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

The back wall of the pipe structure is right at the front of the nacelle pylons for this size hull I'm using (no idea what size ship, but I think it's around the 947' size.)

This is exactly what I was wanting to know. If the structure behind the grate were to just the right length to reach from an engine room near the front of the secondary hull to the area below the struts, it would then likely be something like what would later be called a warp core. Especially if it was a bit longer, as some have said 120 feet, and it is actually corresponds to an intermix chamber and and power transfer conduits, just like in TMP but without the vertical shaft. This is what I thought I was seeing when I was a kid.

Now here's an interesting question: If there are two or more versions of this structure, one in the secondary hull representing the warp core and at least one in the saucer representing an impulse generator, does that mean that we have one version where it is forced-perspective and one version where it isn't? Whoa.

Thanks, King. You probably already know this one, but if anyone wants more nerd time, check out Robert Comsol's old stuff: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

I seem to have trouble finding images on this thread. Am I doing something wrong?

 

[blssdwlf]

I seem to have trouble finding images on this thread. Am I doing something wrong?

Robert Comsol had some difficulty posting images in his thread. In his earlier posts you can still open them on Dropbox with the Dropbox link. Later on Mytran was kind enough to put some of his images on Photobucket, IIRC.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I just reviewed blssdwlf's work on the force perspective pipe structure. He showed it to be ~90 feet. Has anyone heard what the set designers were shooting for its length?

So, here's one more refinement with a small curved corridor, large hazardous deflector machinery and a 90' pipe structure just for the lower engine room. The back wall of the pipe structure is right at the front of the nacelle pylons for this size hull I'm using (no idea what size ship, but I think it's around the 947' size.) The white space at the stern is the hangar deck (one deck down from the flight deck or Shuttlebay).

This is the first treatment I've seen in which curved corridors actually work in the secondary hull and a sensible rationale has been provided for them.