Engine Room(s) on the TOS Enterprise (revisited)

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Spock Riding, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    Or Kirk transferred him to engineering because the security is better in that area - even though it isn't far from the guest quarters or the theater. He would have been safer on the bridge.
     
  2. Spock Riding

    Spock Riding Commodore Premium Member

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    I think Kirk's primary motive was to keep Riley in the dark about the entire affair. I think Kirk was more worried about what Riley would do to Karidian versus the reverse, even though everyone involved in the affair was being murdered. How does Lenore find Riley alone in the Engine Room in the first place if Kirk's intent is to keep him safe from assassination? Another bad command decision from Kirk.
     
  3. Mres_was_framed!

    Mres_was_framed! Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Wow. I could see the Engine Room changing in Season One to become more consistent room(s) in Seasons 2/3. I do not recall, is "That Which Survives" the only time in seasons 2/3 it is not there? If so here my possible look how it might work if there were a mirrored Engine room in the Secondary Hull (comments or issues welcomed):

    - TOS Season 1......facing aft, in secondary hull as noted by "Lower Deck" terminology in several episodes, approx Deck 19 by blueprints.

    -TOS Season 2/3 with Dilithium Chamber TOWARD Pipes.....facing aft, approx Deck 19 by blueprints, replaces Season 1 version.

    -TOS Season 2/3 with Dilithium Chamber AWAY FROM Pipes...facing aft, Primary Hull, pipe structure connected to impulse Engines.

    -TOS Season 2/3 with NO Dilithium Chamber...facing forward (Watkins' death room is to the aft of the room, up against the reactor and/or pipes in the next Engine Room.)

    So there's an idea.
     
  4. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    But on which deck is your Season 2/3 primary hull room ?
     
  5. Mres_was_framed!

    Mres_was_framed! Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It would have to be Deck 6, with the upper level on Deck 7 and the curved corridor leading to engineering being interpreted as meaning the the set is smaller then it looks. I favor suggesting that the saucer Engineering Room in TOS is of the same basic layout is the set, but actually around 75% the size it seems to be to fit inside the concavity.

    I would suggest that the Class 1 Starship Deck 7 and 6 plans in the FJSFTM represent ships building built around Star Date 7300 or so, and not exactly the Enterprise. It is interesting that the Engineering Computer Core is off to the starboard side like it might be in TAS, but contrary the the FJSFTM deck number, that would suggest the room is in secondary hall based on that evidence.
     
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  6. Spock Riding

    Spock Riding Commodore Premium Member

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    I assume you mean the reverse: engine room on Deck 7 with the upper level on Deck 6. That's how I have it, too.
    My research put it as "undetermined". The DTD may have there just off camera instead of missing. The closed side room or Watkins' Death Room in That Which Survives (#69) was never seen again, but it wasn't "unseen" either. The closed room supports the engine room changes from a previous episode The Day of The Dove (#66) which suggests the side room was closed off. The DTD was back in its usual spot in the floor four episodes later in The Lights of Zetar (#73) and again in The Savage Curtain (#77).
     
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  7. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    I actually forgot we saw Engineering in TSC. But come to think of it there is one quick shot, right?
     
  8. Spock Riding

    Spock Riding Commodore Premium Member

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    Even though a short segment with no personnel in it, it looks like it was shot just for that episode with special lights throbbing in the pipes to indicate the engineering emergency, i.e. not stock footage. I just noticed that matter-antimatter shielding deterioration was related to the pipe cathedral lighting. Was this a nod to that the pipe cathedral contained matter and antimatter?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  9. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    I was checking TWS vs TUC and the room where Watkins dies fits with the alcove behind the M5 console. I think the set wall might have been moved a foot between the two configurations, but the door remains the same and in both episodes there is a partition wall with extended grating roughly equal with the door. That is until the avatar that killed Watkins disappears, then that part of the set is completely different (the console Watkins had just checked and the grating surrounding it have vanished and the pipe wall has moved over).
     
  10. Mres_was_framed!

    Mres_was_framed! Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I noticed this also. It seems that the M5 area and Watkins' room are the same but there are different details on the walls. I suspect this is a part of the set that is always there but rarely filmed. Unless I'm mistaken, in "The Doomsday Machine," the wall where Scotty grabs the tool from is actually the end of the wall into which the door is built. Also, in "Day of the Dove," the comm panel Kirk and Kang use to end the fighting is on the end of this wall, I think. In both cases, all those pipes from "That Which Survives" likely are not there.
     
  11. Spock Riding

    Spock Riding Commodore Premium Member

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    We've gone full circle back to pages 6 and 7 starting around post #104...but I enjoy the refresher. :techman:
     
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  12. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was just thinking the same thing! :techman:
    My sketch showing the difference between TWS and EOT (which is basically the same alcove as TUC) is worth reposting though:
    [​IMG]

    Suffice to say, if the diagnostic room in TWS is in the same Engine Room as TUC and EOT then some major expansion work went on - I hope there was nothing important in that room opposite the tri-ladder!
    That's why I tend to see the Engine Room in TWS as the one in the secondary hull that used to be the S1 Engine Room from Enemy Within - we never see the exterior corridors, so we never need to worry about them! :biggrin:
     
  13. Spock Riding

    Spock Riding Commodore Premium Member

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    It was the brig on another deck. Nice that they put an escape ladder across from the brig when the prisoner eventually escapes. :techman: In Season 3, I noticed that they used the ladder "corridor" as a path to and from Sickbay.

    It was never seen in conjunction with the engine room scenes. I like to think it was a bathroom. You can't have the engineering crew wander off too far while on duty to do doody.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  14. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Something like that happened in Way To Eden with a cohort of the prisoner using the ladder to sneak up on the guard.

    Also in S1, with Corbomite Maneuver

    In Ultimate Computer the doorway was just sealed off with a plain panel, not even a door! The distinctive red and green buttons remained though. Maybe a high energy circuit may of some sort?
     
  15. Spock Riding

    Spock Riding Commodore Premium Member

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    um...I assume you mean the side hall next to the engineering entrance door since the trip-ladder alcove didn't exist in Season 1.
     
  16. uniderth

    uniderth Commodore Commodore

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    That's a difference of about 105 days, or in other words, 9,072,000 seconds.

    1/9,072,000 = 0.0000001102292

    Therefore, this thread operates at a frequency of 110.2292 nanohertz.

    If that was a radio wave it would have the wavelength of about 2,719,719,076,252.0275km

    That means that a photon could have theoretically traveled from the sun to the earth and back about 9,090 times, or traveled from the sun to Neptune and back 302.5 times; in the time it took this thread to come full circle.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
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  17. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    While really cool, the TWS version is not quite what we see in the episode. The console is moved over to the left more because the right side of the console lines up to the left side of the door, not the right. Plus the wall down from the console is straight, not angled. So the entire room is wider than pictured. Also, the area where the avatar disappears has 4 pipes (2 on either side of a small gap). It appears to be the same pipe wall that is connect to the console in the earlier scenes, but suddenly is next to the door when the avatar disappears. Except that is would require there be 2 different rooms that are otherwise identical, I like the second pipe wall, but in what I drew I left it open to the rest of engineering and put the TUC console (which was behind Daystrom) on the other side of the wall from the pipes and just made the assumption that they screwed up the set and the avatar disappeared from behind the console rather than closer to the door. For EOT it would mean that there is an unseen alcove behind there like is hinted at in TUC (where it is a blurry area that appears to be not near as deep as what we see in TWS. But then I am an advocate of only 2 engine rooms with season 1 being the saucer room and seasons 2/3 being the secondary hull room. So I'm trying to create a plan that fits the most episodes rather than create multiple rooms to cater to every episode.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    One or two photons??
     
  19. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    I would say one. When we see the Enterprise launch torpedoes, it is one at at time and from a single location that appears to be center on the lower portion of the saucer. The effects were not consistent so that is only the most common effects used.
     
  20. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Good catch about the layout of the room! Although if you look at this picture you will see that the line of the red grill next to the console is in line with the wall right of Scotty's monitoring console, so the angle is probably more like like this:

    [​IMG]
    I adjusted the angle of the outer wall as well, since more space was definitely needed and this image might indicate such a repositioning was in order.
    I definitely missed the 4th pipe but as we see from here and here the pipes are definitely adjacent to the door and not the console.
     
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