Engine Room(s) on the TOS Enterprise (revisited)

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Henoch, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. uniderth

    uniderth Commodore Commodore

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    I think that impulse power can power a low level FTL drive. But I think that an impulse engine is STL.
     
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  2. BK613

    BK613 Commodore Commodore

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    This.
     
  3. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    Within the series is fine if they stick to it. Some changes vanished as quickly as they appeared.

    And on closer look, you are right about the paddle shaped dilithium crystals. From TAF on they are the same, though they changed the location. I would guess that the location in TAF is a storage location or additional circuits. In Mudd's Women they lost several crystals trying to save Mudd and the location in Elaan and TPS only holds one.
     
  4. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    We see them on the BOP in TVH, but we never see them in TWOK. All we see is Spock reaching inside the thermos thingy and it's never explained what's in there.
     
  5. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Look at the lid or cover of the thermos thingy that Spock reaches into. IMHO, it's either very clever on the props department or sheer luck that Scotty's updated "dilithium sequencer" in the BOP is the same one that was used as the lid of the the thermos thingy in TWOK.

    SCOTT: We're ready, sir. I've converted the dilithium sequencer into something a little less primitive.​
     
  6. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    J
    Again, it's not identified as such and props get re-used as other things all the time. But you can decide that;s what it is. :)
     
  7. Mres_was_framed!

    Mres_was_framed! Commander Red Shirt

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    LOL. But accurate. Why swirly energy, though? It seems like it would be the matter and antimatter swirling around in non-1/1 ratio to get plasma or more or less energy as a reaction. Same deal with Voyager.

    I want to use those cues, but they seem inconclusive on their own. In Probert's diagram on this thread you can see exactly where in the ship he visualized the Engine Room to be, because you can see where the shafts meet. In TOS it is not as clear, though I in some ways did and in some ways did not like the image where the orange structure make up the Power Transfer Conduits.

    Using the term "franchise" rather than "canon" opens up mention of the Kelvin where the engineering hull and nacelle are apparently in the same module (with an additional secondary hull above that is dominated by shuttlebay)

    These are clear crystals like the ones seen in "The Voyage Home" and TNG. Maybe it is a different types of dilithium, only called "lithium" in TOS, but called "dilithium" also in TNG. It differs from the pink crystals seen in the third season.

    I said before this is what I thought I was seeing when I first saw the show. I did not know about the changes to the model until later after seeing a number of episodes.
     
  8. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    It's probably warp plasma or some other energy in the Enterprise's shaft. Voyager's warp core has two blue swirly segments but the ends and lower half are encased metal. I'm not sure where the reaction chamber is on that warp core compared to the E-D's warp core.
    Enterprise's vertical shaft suggests the M/AM reaction chamber is at the very bottom of the shaft and the swirly energy is sent upwards to the impulse and warp engines.

    I think you can come up with something that will fit your idea of where the major components are on the TOS Enterprise. The vagueness actually works in our favor :)
     
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  9. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A single Energizer is also mentioned in the earlier battle simulation. TOS on the other hand has at least 2 Main Energizers (nicely paralleling the advancement of technology in TMP) and they are on Deck 7 (according to The Doomsday Machine)

    I seem to recall another poster with a very similar theory a few years back (although I can't find the thread now). Not that I'm suggesting that your idea isn't original - it's a fantastic example of TOS producing convergent theories independently, which only strengthens the position!
    My only question is - why wasn't this technology still used in the TNG era?

    Or my own "split pinwheel" theory, in which the alien had to journey down to the secondary hull to rejoin with the main portion of itself :biggrin:

    If just going by Savage Curtain then I would tend to agree. However, events in The Apple revolved around boosting Impulse power, in which case lightening the load by dumping half the ship would be a major help.

    Perhaps some pictures would help to clarify things?
    The crystal container in ST2 and ST4:
    [​IMG]
    And its counterpart in TNG:
    [​IMG]
    And what we would expect in TNG:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. uniderth

    uniderth Commodore Commodore

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    True. However, "The Apple " is the episode that specifically mentions discarding the "warp drive nacelles". Out of the two episodes "The Apple" is pretty much the nail in the coffin for me that it is the two cylinders that will be jettisoned, leaving behind the primary and secondary hulls as the "main section". Because even if you're willing to define "nacelles" as the engineering hull and the two engines, the term "warp drive nacelles" is pretty darn specific.
     
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  11. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    You cut off the key info on the right of the figure. Here, I "found" the full sketch: :shifty:
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But what weight benefit would discarding the nacelles bring, compared with dumping them and half the ship?
    Also, what is the process for "discarding" the warp drive nacelles? If the nacelles & pylons are firmly anchored to the ship (which with all the stresses for distorting space/time, you would hope they would be) then the only way to detach them would be in another location - and the next obvious section for doing so is the dorsal neck.
    Couple that with the fact that separation of saucer and stardrive section was a concept that existing since the first draft of the Writer's Bible and I have no doubt what the intent of the line was.

    Well that's me convinced! :beer:
     
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  13. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    What part of "not identified as such" in TWOK are you failing to grok? They never say WHAT it is in TWOK. That's all.
     
  14. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not arguing that - I just thought it would be helpful to have some visuals so that people can make a direct comparison.
    • It is undoubtedly the same prop in both shots; basically a glass box with a crystal inside.
    • Crystals in Star Trek are usually dilithium.
    • The prop is reused in TVH to represent a dilithium crystal housing.
    So yes, the TWOK prop could be something different - but what?
     
  15. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    They needed to improve the design of that thing that Spock reaches into, and install a pop-up crystal holder on it. :whistle:
     
  16. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not to mention bolt it more securely to the floor. For a critical piece of hardware, it sure wobbles around a lot! ;)
     
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  17. uniderth

    uniderth Commodore Commodore

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    Whatever it was that brought the "mains" back online and shoots fog everywhere.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  18. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Correction - space fog! :guffaw:
     
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  19. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    Here's a behind the scenes photo of the gizmo opened up. No crystals.

    [​IMG]

    When I asked about what was inside it, modelmaker Richard A. Coyle replied, "Maurice: Sorry I misread your question: It was like the insides of a Police light without the red lens. Keven it was the recystalazier <sic> in ST4 after that i lost track of it."
     
  20. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Great photo - but that is one fragile looking prop!