Endgame's End
- Thread starter Photon
- Start date
I'm inclined to agree.
Of course, I might rewrite the story a bit.
Option One: Using a similar template by setting it in the future. In my scenario, the past story would unfold in flashbacks, and in the end Janeway would be revealed to be the Borg Queen, long ago assimilated. Yes, that's right, we'd see a scene where our heroes discover a hidden base on Earth and Janeway would be assembled before their eyes! :devil
Option Two: I might still use the time travel idea but this would explore the nature of the Borg. Voyager meets 29th century time cops again, this time on the run from the Borg, who have overrun the Alpha Quadrant in their time. They were sending a mission to the Delta Quadrant to change the Borg's history by averting their development but the Borg catch up with them, leading them to come out several centuries too early. Voyager helps the cops destroy the pursuing sphere, but the cops die, leaving the crew to carry out the mission. Voyager goes back in time and the Doctor and Seven journey to the Borg homeworld and find a civilization seeking to use nanotech to overcome a phagelike infection. The Doctor helps them overcome the infection, averting the Borg's creation. Returning to the present, they find a power far worse than the Borg has overrun the galaxy, so they must, in part three go back and undo what they did in the past, finding a way to allow the Borg to develop but with significant weaknesses that will keep them from defeating the Federation in the future. As a reward, the 29th century time cops take Voy back to the Alpha Quadrant in the 24th century.
Of course, I might rewrite the story a bit.
Option One: Using a similar template by setting it in the future. In my scenario, the past story would unfold in flashbacks, and in the end Janeway would be revealed to be the Borg Queen, long ago assimilated. Yes, that's right, we'd see a scene where our heroes discover a hidden base on Earth and Janeway would be assembled before their eyes! :devil
Option Two: I might still use the time travel idea but this would explore the nature of the Borg. Voyager meets 29th century time cops again, this time on the run from the Borg, who have overrun the Alpha Quadrant in their time. They were sending a mission to the Delta Quadrant to change the Borg's history by averting their development but the Borg catch up with them, leading them to come out several centuries too early. Voyager helps the cops destroy the pursuing sphere, but the cops die, leaving the crew to carry out the mission. Voyager goes back in time and the Doctor and Seven journey to the Borg homeworld and find a civilization seeking to use nanotech to overcome a phagelike infection. The Doctor helps them overcome the infection, averting the Borg's creation. Returning to the present, they find a power far worse than the Borg has overrun the galaxy, so they must, in part three go back and undo what they did in the past, finding a way to allow the Borg to develop but with significant weaknesses that will keep them from defeating the Federation in the future. As a reward, the 29th century time cops take Voy back to the Alpha Quadrant in the 24th century.
Frankly I feel if they couldn't get done right in two hours, 3 isn't going to help any better.
It wasn't the length that hurt it, it was the lack of a better conclusion. If they had cut out Capt. Kim chasing down Adm. Janeway, they could have used that time toward a proper conclusion.
It wasn't the length that hurt it, it was the lack of a better conclusion. If they had cut out Capt. Kim chasing down Adm. Janeway, they could have used that time toward a proper conclusion.
I'd love to see a much better motivation for the Admiral's decision to change history. Perhaps the Federation could be just a remnant left behind after a Borg invasion through the exit apertures. Perhaps some other catastrophe occured because of their failure to get home earlier. I think there needs to be something more than what we get.
Then, I would ditch the C/7 relationship, which adds nothing to the drama of the return, and replace it with a totally different C and 7 subplot. Specifically, I'd have the admiral return and plan the early return, but then, just as Voyager engages the Borg, have 7 leave the ship--afraid to return to the AQ and meet thousands of new people. Chakotay would be sent to retrieve her, and we'd have the drama of whether their return would happen before the Admiral destroys the Queen and Voyager is out of reach forever.
Those two issues bother me most with Endgame: the Admiral's wierd and selfish motives and the very rushed and improbable C/7 romance.
Then, I would ditch the C/7 relationship, which adds nothing to the drama of the return, and replace it with a totally different C and 7 subplot. Specifically, I'd have the admiral return and plan the early return, but then, just as Voyager engages the Borg, have 7 leave the ship--afraid to return to the AQ and meet thousands of new people. Chakotay would be sent to retrieve her, and we'd have the drama of whether their return would happen before the Admiral destroys the Queen and Voyager is out of reach forever.
Those two issues bother me most with Endgame: the Admiral's wierd and selfish motives and the very rushed and improbable C/7 romance.
I always liked Endgame - despite the number of fans that seem to dislike it - and I feel that it did explain what happened to the crew. While I don't believe Chakotay and Seven died or that Tuvok went insane, I do believe that it wrapped up and showed us what was in store for the rest of the leads.
Janeway: Became a celebrated Admiral that taught at Starfleet Academy.
Tom Paris: Left Starfleet and became a successful holonovelist. (Though I thought he should have stayed in Starfleet).
B'Elanna: Accepted her Klingon heritage and became a Federation Liaison to the Klingon Empire.
Harry Kim: Climbed the ranks and became a Starship Captain.
The Doctor: Became more human and decided to marry. Took a position at Starfleet Medical.
Neelix: Serves as the Federation Ambassador to the Delta Quadrant (Shown in Homestead).
Nemesis somewhat suggests this with Admiral Janeway's appearance.
As for Admiral Janeways trip to the past: I like the idea that it was because Starfleet changed a great deal because of some disaster (maybe even the Borg invasion because of the hub). Surprisingly the RPG I'm in below has a similar storyline.
Janeway: Became a celebrated Admiral that taught at Starfleet Academy.
Tom Paris: Left Starfleet and became a successful holonovelist. (Though I thought he should have stayed in Starfleet).
B'Elanna: Accepted her Klingon heritage and became a Federation Liaison to the Klingon Empire.
Harry Kim: Climbed the ranks and became a Starship Captain.
The Doctor: Became more human and decided to marry. Took a position at Starfleet Medical.
Neelix: Serves as the Federation Ambassador to the Delta Quadrant (Shown in Homestead).
Nemesis somewhat suggests this with Admiral Janeway's appearance.
As for Admiral Janeways trip to the past: I like the idea that it was because Starfleet changed a great deal because of some disaster (maybe even the Borg invasion because of the hub). Surprisingly the RPG I'm in below has a similar storyline.
Good points.
I'd also like to add that if the show was really about the journey, why write all these interpersonal stories about relationships between these characters as well as with in themselves? From Chakotay coming to grips with betrayal & failed relationship with Seska to Seven learning about morals and rediscovering her humanity. The journey would be meaningless without the characters.
I agree, especially with the next to last episode being a throw away. Part one could have been Admiral Janeway's Voyager getting home, her dealing with the loses, and when the opportunity arose deciding she had to act. It would have mostly been in the future. As it was, it really had no resolution other than the ship getting home. Personally, I would have liked to see Cameos of the Enterprise-E and Defiant with maybe a short on screen appearance by Picard. DS9 look about a half an hour to wrap things up.
kimc said:
If they did a mini-series that takes place after "Endgame" I would watch it - as long as there is no borg, time travel or C/7.
Besides, there are plenty of fantastic post-Endgame fanfiction options online to give me my Voyager fix.
Not to mention the novel relaunch series.
I could not agree more. I just finished watching VOY straight through for the first time as I missed it entirely in its first run and I was really disappointed by the total lack of a conclusion. Simply seeing them head home wasn't enough for me. I really wanted to see them reunite with old friends and family. Specifically I was looking forward to Admiral Paris welcoming home his new grandchild and daughter-in-law. Considering how the series started I thought that that would be a very poignant ending for those characters. I just wanted resolution. Otherwise, while I was burned out on the Borg already, I still enjoyed the final episodes and the series as a whole.
The thing I was most looking forward to was Niomi seeing her father for the first time.GaslightGreen said:
I could not agree more. I just finished watching VOY straight through for the first time as I missed it entirely in its first run and I was really disappointed by the total lack of a conclusion. Simply seeing them head home wasn't enough for me. I really wanted to see them reunite with old friends and family. Specifically I was looking forward to Admiral Paris welcoming home his new grandchild and daughter-in-law. Considering how the series started I thought that that would be a very poignant ending for those characters. I just wanted resolution. Otherwise, while I was burned out on the Borg already, I still enjoyed the final episodes and the series as a whole.
Oh a flip note, if Chakotay didn't hook up with Seven or Janeway, who or what would he have come home too? Weren't all or most of his family & friends dead?
@MacLeod
That's true, but there was a story going on at home in the Odyssey (the wife and her suitors, etc.), so that story needed resolution. But there was no story going on at home in Voyager, so no resolution was necessary. Voyager only told the story of the journey. The obstacle was getting home, and arriving home was the resolution.
@exodus
It's a metaphor. Not only was the ship on a literal journey, but that literal journey caused the characters to engage in metaphysical journeys of self. Example: Seven's "journey" was to the destination of "humanity" which is why Seven's destination is achieved in the final episode in which the end of the literal journey is also resolved. Sticking her with Chakotay was showing that she had resolved her journey. Although I still think it was rushed, and would've benefitted from a little exposition is the final season.
@sbk1234
I don't follow what this means.
That's true, but there was a story going on at home in the Odyssey (the wife and her suitors, etc.), so that story needed resolution. But there was no story going on at home in Voyager, so no resolution was necessary. Voyager only told the story of the journey. The obstacle was getting home, and arriving home was the resolution.
@exodus
It's a metaphor. Not only was the ship on a literal journey, but that literal journey caused the characters to engage in metaphysical journeys of self. Example: Seven's "journey" was to the destination of "humanity" which is why Seven's destination is achieved in the final episode in which the end of the literal journey is also resolved. Sticking her with Chakotay was showing that she had resolved her journey. Although I still think it was rushed, and would've benefitted from a little exposition is the final season.
@sbk1234
I don't follow what this means.
I understand what you mean a little better, however I still don't agree. Seven wasn't the only one on a "life journey", every character changed. What was missing was how those lessons learned changed their lives now back in the Alpha Quaderant. The journey would be meaningless because we didn't see how it benefited them in the lives that they wanted to get back too.
