Endgame's End

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Photon, May 17, 2007.

  1. CaptJimboJones

    CaptJimboJones Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought it ended perfectly. Showing them on Earth, being reunited with family, etc., would have been too much like those silly "Rescued from Gilligan's Island" TV movies from the '80s. :lol:
     
  2. The Borg Queen

    The Borg Queen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Does it matter?
    Some episodes of Star Trek ARE boring. Sorry, but it's true.

    Which episodes are all down to personal taste though.

    I think all the "political intrigue" episodes of Star Trek to be totally rubbish and dull, you may think otherwise, but I know that I would have found a Voyager Resolution episode to be interesting and worth watching.
     
  3. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    I am reminded of the old saying "You can't please everyone all of the time."
     
  4. Braxton

    Braxton Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In a way, you could possibly link Future Janeway's action with the Temporal Cold War. She changed the future by bringing her crew back sooner than they should have. This action 'erased' the Relativity from the future for some reason, perhaps because other temporal incursions occurred. The Temporal Accords were eventually signed but it was only a temporary reprieve. Within a century or two, factions began to form with them having their own agenda to use time travel to better their future. All of this came about because of Future Janeway doing what she did. Basically she is the one that started the Temporal Cold War.

    I know this is a stretch but it could be possible. Especially since we don't know much about the Temporal Cold War.


    I like Endgame but look back and think that the time travel should not have been used. They should have stumbled upon that Borg Transwarp Hub on their own. They decide to make a daring run at it in the hope of getting home or at least getting closer. The Borg inflict serious damage on Voyager but fail to capture it before they enter a corridor. The Borg catch up to them. Before the Sphere can capture them, someone suggests firing on ones of those 'struts' to try and collapse the corridor and perhaps take the Hub with it. They fire a full spread of Photon Torpedoes, one happens to hit a critical junction in the 'strut' and the corridor begins to collapse. This is when Voyager is capture by the Sphere and it then exists at Earth because this is a one way corridor. Starfleet is there waiting for them and quickly pummels the Sphere with weapons fire, destroying it and further crippling Voyager in the process, but Voyager survives, albeit it in terrible condition. The fleet then escorts Voyager to Earth, which can only achieve half impulse at best.

    While it may be farfetched, it's just as farfetched as using time travel to achieve the same thing.
     
  5. Charles Trip Tucker III

    Charles Trip Tucker III Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That doesn't make sense. Since Admiral Janeway's future never continued past 2403 due to her changing the past, the Relativity would be from the future of the new timeline seen in the buln of "Endgame."


    Why wouldn't Voyager be assimilated long before it reached the Transwarp Hub? Why wouldn't the Borg send a fleet of Cubes to assimilate Humanity after they destroyed a Transwarp Hub? The time travel plot was necessary for Voyager to believably use the Transwarp Hub.

    Personally, I liked that we got to see time travel and Borg in the finale, since those two themes often lead to some of VOY's best episodes. :)
     
  6. CaptJamieway

    CaptJamieway Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think it would have been nice if they had some kind of a touching (sappy, I wanted sappy!) scene at the end...

    After the scene they ended with, maybe they could have cut to a scene of them having a party in the real Sandrines. Some of their family members could have been there with them and Janeway could have made some kind of toast. I don't know... just SOMETHING.

    If they had cut out all of that C/7 stuff, maybe they would have had time for that.

    I cried (well, teared up) at the end of the TNG & DS9 finales... & yet Voyager is the Trek series that I grew up with, the series I watched from beginning to end.... & I did not shed one single tear.
     
  7. Charles Trip Tucker III

    Charles Trip Tucker III Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    While I would have prefered the series to end with Voyager landing near San Francisco, I actually liked the final scene featuring Voyager escorted to Earth by a fleet of ships. In that final shot, you can see the most popular Starfleet ship designs. A Galaxy-class ship to represent TNG, a Defiant-class ship to represent DS9, Voyager, the Prometheus, a Nebula-class ship, and an Excelsior-class ship.
     
  8. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^Me either.

    With TNG & DS9, the endings made you sad to see them go, with Voyager you where left with "That's it?" The only good part of ENT was to hear Kirk, Picard & Archer all saying the opening scene monolog together.

    Sandries is an awesome idea! :thumbsup:
     
  9. Equinox

    Equinox Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Endgame was a great finale and tied in with the first episode perfectly in the sense that in the first ep Voyager is quickly flung across the galaxy and in the finale Voyager is flung just as fast back to Earth.

    No, it wasn't better than All Good Things... but I believe it was at least on the same level as What You Leave Behind and better in some ways... (although to be honest I felt Sisko's ascension/death was pretty friggin' hokey).
     
  10. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    I agree that "Endgame" should have been a three parter. While they indeed got home at the end of part two, it ended too abruptly. "That's it?" I kept saying over and over again when I first saw the episode back then. There were endless possibilites to for one more episode, or even one more season!

    I think there should have been at least another episode to show the aftermath of the homecoming, much like "Family" was some kind of part three to "The Best Of Both Worlds".
     
  11. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    At least we had SOME scenes before Voyager disappered from the AQ.
     
  12. All Seeing Eye

    All Seeing Eye Admiral

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    As far as im concerned Voyager didnt have to have time travel involved, they could have found the Borg Nexus and retreated and contacted StarFleet about the Nexus, Starfleet could then have transmitted information about new prototype starfleet technology designed specifically to fight the Borg (shielding/transphasic torpedos etc) which they could have used against them, as for taking down the Borg Queen the storyline could simply have had Seven of Nine and the Doctor discover a way to make nanobots capable of killing the Queen and could have used the mobile emitter to send a holographic seven of nine into unimatrix 01 to infect the queen.
     
  13. Photon

    Photon Commodore Commodore

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    I don't know if starfleet had even began working on that type of tech, since it came to pass many years after V'ger returned. Even SF's proto tech would have been easily adapted by the Borg
     
  14. wheresthomas

    wheresthomas Ensign Red Shirt

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    Ok here's my take on Voyagers End. Three part end for one instead of two.

    1) Keep the Janeway future with the Borg assimilating most of Earth and Janeway and "friends" fighting to save humanity. Have Janeway decide to change the future by going through the Borg Space.

    2) Have Admiral Janeway explain how badly beaton Earth was and that they got home to nothing.

    3) Have Admiral Janeway go back like she did and help the Voyager crew get back "early"

    4) Have the crew reunite complete with landing on Star Fleet's grounds.
     
  15. Computer

    Computer Captain Captain

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    I would have gotten rid of the time travel bit and the Future Janeway and set it completely in Voyagers time.

    7 of 9 would have been the one to carry the pathagen to the borg homeworld via transwarp conduit (not the unicomplex) where the queen would reassimilate her, as the borg begin to die/go crazy 7 and the Queen would have a few parting words and as 7 closes her eyes we jump to unimatrix zero where her and her love are standing on a mountain (or something together) then we cut away to see the homeoworld blowing up (not the full planet though) then cut to Voyager entering the hub and end with the same final sequence with the borg ship swallowing Voyager and emerging to the Starfleet. battle goes on then voyager gets escorted home.

    Its actually allot more detailed in my head but im too tired to type it lol.
     
  16. Charles Trip Tucker III

    Charles Trip Tucker III Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sounds good except for the Unimatrix Zero part given that was destroyed in "Unimatrix Zero, Part II." :p I like the idea of Seven dieing in the finale, but only if it's a self sacrifice to save Voyager. Having her die due to a futile quest to be fully Human is way too dark for Star Trek.
     
  17. Computer

    Computer Captain Captain

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    ok then maybe she can have a flashback and as she dies we see the slight beginnings of a smile on her face. We never saw her smile much.

    And yes that was the general idea, she would die to save Voyager.

    ooooooo maybe Janeway is the one thats supposed to go but before she departs in the shuttle 7 phasers her in the back and we are led to believe that 7 is returning to the collective to be a drone because she fears the possibility of returning to Earth, but once she arrives and is reassimilated we realize that she was carrying the pathagen and chose to sacrafice herself.
     
  18. Charles Trip Tucker III

    Charles Trip Tucker III Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's even better. It would provide closure to Seven's arc and give the finale great emotional impact. A scene should be added that goes like this...

    Queen, "You fool! You've infected Unimatrix 01 with your pathegeon. Now we'll both die!"

    Seven, " We'll both die? You think in such three dimensional terms."

    Imagine if the episode ended with Voyager going back to the Delta Quadrant instead of being swallowed by the Sphere. The episode could end with a Borg cube showing up and swallowing Voyager only to reveal Borgified Seven of Nine from the future revealing that she rejoined the collective, cut her Cube off from the collective, brought her Cube back in time, then provided her younger self with a pathegeon to destroy the Queen and Unimatrix 01. The Cube then flies to Earth where Janeway hails Admiral Paris and informs them that not only is Voyager returning home, but they've captured a Borg cube intact and free of damage for Starfleet engineers to reverse engineer.

    Alright, maybe that's too similar to the "Endgame" we got, but it's a good alternative, is it not?
     
  19. Computer

    Computer Captain Captain

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    Yea but then we lose the emotional impact of 7's death. Like Data in Nemesis was cheapened because of B4.

    I like the lines though.

    We should do a thread for thought up lines.
     
  20. Computer

    Computer Captain Captain

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    In a rare moment of sappiness I threw together the idea for 7's death scene as it plays in my head. Im not a writer so bare with me, but itll give you a better mental picture of this specific scene.
    This occurs after the queen dies:

    As 7 leans back against the structure her head bows, explosions all around her, her eyes peer off as if in a daydream. Suddenly we see through her eyes, we are walking through the woods nearing an openning, she is on a mountain, there are two people standing near the presopous watching the sun rise, a man and a woman, we are moving faster as if we are running, the trees whiz by as we leave her perspective to reval a little girl, she runs to them, they both turn with smiles of joy, the man picks her up into his embrace... "Annaka"
    We leave the images of her mind, her eyes slowly close as a look of peace fills her face, her lips form a slight smile as the illumination of her implants dim. 7 of 9 dies.