Endgame

[Oddish]

Harry never getting a promotion on Voyager is just idiotic. It makes no sense. And Janeway giving him a formal reprimand the very first time he did something out of the ordinary is unconscionable especially from someone like her who did more than her share of transgressions.

Especially since all he did was get down with an alien chick. If Picard went by the same standards, Riker would have been busted down to toilet scrubber.

The reprimand should have been irrelevant anyway, given that it occured in the fifth season. Harry should have had that hollow pip on his collar by the time Seven replaced Kes on the ship's roster.

The fact that the writers thought we were STUPID enough to buy this idiocy is, quite simply, an insult.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Getting a promotion just cause some fuck up go eaten by a salt vampire is pathetic.

Janeway couldn't promote everyone, every time someone died, because that would just make everyone sad, and every bastard on the ship would know that no one was where they deserved to be, be cause of talent and merit.

She could only promote anyone, if it went a month and no one died.

 

[Swedish Borg]

B'elanna gets a field promotion of Lieutenant even though she's not even a member of Starfleet. I bet if Harry had gone rogue he would have been promoted.

Three or four more years and Iched would have been made Lieutenant BEFORE Harry.

 

[Oddish]

Getting a promotion just cause some fuck up go eaten by a salt vampire is pathetic.

Janeway couldn't promote everyone, every time someone died, because that would just make everyone sad, and every bastard on the ship would know that no one was where they deserved to be, be cause of talent and merit.

She could only promote anyone, if it went a month and no one died.

That would fly if Starfleet operated under a wartime promotion system: if an officer dies, his most capable subordinate takes his place. However, Starfleet's promotion system is far less... Klingon. Eight different officers in the same era received promotions WITHOUT ACTUALLY CHANGING JOBS, based on simple performance level and seniority.

All Janeway had to do was call Harry to the front of the group at one of their senior staff meetings and say something like "for impeccable service in a very difficult situation, I promote you to the rank of lieutenant, with all privileges and responsibilities therein." That or leave a box on his chair.

B'elanna gets a field promotion of Lieutenant even though she's not even a member of Starfleet. I bet if Harry had gone rogue he would have been promoted.

Three or four more years and [Icheb] would have been made Lieutenant BEFORE Harry.

Ten, and he'd be calling Naomi "sir". Or more likely "ma'am", since she would probably imitate her role model. Twenty, and Miral would pass him up as well. And of course, the only romance he would get is that Irish holodeck lass. Assuming they didn't just kill him off. When you think about it, it's a surprise he didn't die the way Carey did: just weeks before Voyager made it home. The perfect climax to "Harry Kim Must SUFFER"!

 

[Swedish Borg]

...
Ten, and he'd be calling Naomi "sir". Or more likely "ma'am", since she would probably imitate her role model. Twenty, and Miral would pass him up as well. And of course, the only romance he would get is that Irish holodeck lass. Assuming they didn't just kill him off. When you think about it, it's a surprise he didn't die the way Carey did: just weeks before Voyager made it home. The perfect climax to "Harry Kim Must SUFFER"!

The unluckiest man in the world... He would have died on the bridge from an exploding console moments before the finish line!

 

[Oddish]

The unluckiest man in the world... He would have died on the bridge from an exploding console moments before the finish line!

Some YouTuber or other who wasn't fond of "Endgame" did an alternate finale. The story was that they had figured how to beam everyone home through some wormhole or other, but Voyager couldn't go. To prevent its te h winding up in the wrong hands, Janeway would have to set the autodestruct before departure. And the episode ended with the camera panning through the empty corridors with Majel Barrell counting down "7... 6... 5... 4..." It was actually a pretty effective concept.

My version of it? After Janeway has dematerialized and the computer is counting off the final few seconds before Voyager blows itself to bits, we see Harry emerging from his quarters. And he hears the "5... 4... 3..." and his eyes get real big... and then we cut to black and see the CREATED BY RICK BERMAN & BRANDON BRAGA.

An optional post-credits scene has the whole crew celebrating together in Pathfinder HQ with Barclay and Owen Paris, when Tom suddenly speaks up: "Hey, has anyone seen Harry?"

 

[Swedish Borg]

Some YouTuber or other who wasn't fond of "Endgame" did an alternate finale. The story was that they had figured how to beam everyone home through some wormhole or other, but Voyager couldn't go. To prevent its te h winding up in the wrong hands, Janeway would have to set the autodestruct before departure. And the episode ended with the camera panning through the empty corridors with Majel Barrell counting down "7... 6... 5... 4..." It was actually a pretty effective concept.

My version of it? After Janeway has dematerialized and the computer is counting off the final few seconds before Voyager blows itself to bits, we see Harry emerging from his quarters. And he hears the "5... 4... 3..." and his eyes get real big... and then we cut to black and see the CREATED BY RICK BERMAN & BRANDON BRAGA.

An optional post-credits scene has the whole crew celebrating together in Pathfinder HQ with Barclay and Owen Paris, when Tom suddenly speaks up: "Hey, has anyone seen Harry?"

To think that Harry almost died (and was initially meant to die) eaten by 8472's cells... But a change of mind among the powers that be caused his "miraculous" recovery.

 

[Oddish]

To think that Harry almost died (and was initially meant to die) eaten by 8472's cells... But a change of mind among the powers that be caused his "miraculous" recovery.

There are a lot of things they could have done with Harry that would have been totally reasonable. One was kill him off: given how little his character was developed, it would have been very little lost, and a devastating tragedy for the crew, if handled right. Another was to eliminate him without killing him (have "Non Sequitur" end with him unable to get back, maybe). But if they weren't going to kill him and they weren't going to non-lethally eliminate him, they should have made him a lieutenant.

 

[Swedish Borg]

There are a lot of things they could have done with Harry that would have been totally reasonable. One was kill him off: given how little his character was developed, it would have been very little lost, and a devastating tragedy for the crew, if handled right. Another was to eliminate him without killing him (have "Non Sequitur" end with him unable to get back, maybe). But if they weren't going to kill him and they weren't going to non-lethally eliminate him, they should have made him a lieutenant.

I agree, his remaining an ensign for all these years makes it seem like Janeway had a personal grudge against him.

Do you realize that she promoted Tom back in less than a year and he had committed an act of terrorism!!!!

He sleeps with an alien and gets a formal reprimand!!!

The mind boggles.

 

[fireproof78]

There are a lot of things they could have done with Harry that would have been totally reasonable. One was kill him off: given how little his character was developed, it would have been very little lost, and a devastating tragedy for the crew, if handled right. Another was to eliminate him without killing him (have "Non Sequitur" end with him unable to get back, maybe). But if they weren't going to kill him and they weren't going to non-lethally eliminate him, they should have made him a lieutenant.

One could have been him deciding he wants to stay in the Delta Quadrant for whatever reason. He finds some reason to want to stay, to become less concerned about getting home and more concerned about making the Delta quadrant a better place. Couple his idealism with a measure of growth.

 

[Swedish Borg]

One could have been him deciding he wants to stay in the Delta Quadrant for whatever reason. He finds some reason to want to stay, to become less concerned about getting home and more concerned about making the Delta quadrant a better place. Couple his idealism with a measure of growth.

He could have left with the gorgeous alien girl he was (allegedly) in love with... That would have been a nice neat departure (a la Neelix).

 

[Oddish]

I agree, his remaining an ensign for all these years makes it seem like Janeway had a personal grudge against him.

Do you realize that she promoted Tom back in less than a year and he had committed an act of terrorism!!!!

He sleeps with an alien and gets a formal reprimand!!!

The mind boggles.

There is more truth in that than you realize. Harry is promoted in multiple alternate realities, when he is no longer under Janeway's command.

He could have left with the gorgeous alien girl he was (allegedly) in love with... That would have been a nice neat departure (a la Neelix).

I actually kind of like that idea. Some characters died, and some civilians left Voyager (Kes, Neelix, and all Borglets save Icheb). And, one Maquis who was actually a Cardassian spy left. But what about the Starfleet and actual Maquis? It seems logical that at least one of them would jump ship at some point.

 

[fireproof78]

I actually kind of like that idea. Some characters died, and some civilians left Voyager (Kes, Neelix, and all Borglets save Icheb). And, one Maquis who was actually a Cardassian spy left. But what about the Starfleet and actual Maquis? It seems logical that at least one of them would jump ship at some point.

Honestly, having that small tension with the crew wanting to leave, and facing the challenge of leaving someone behind who wants to. A bit of drama to explore.

 

[Swedish Borg]

...
I actually kind of like that idea. Some characters died, and some civilians left Voyager (Kes, Neelix, and all Borglets save Icheb). And, one Maquis who was actually a Cardassian spy left. But what about the Starfleet and actual Maquis? It seems logical that at least one of them would jump ship at some point.

Remember the Amelia Earhart planet?

They kept saying how gorgeous that civilization was with big cities next to enormous expanses of unexplored wilderness. They were still seventy light-years away back then. I find it impossible to believe that not one of them wanted to stay, especially the Maquis people who were still considered criminals back home!!!

Each time I see the ending with the cargo hold empty it makes me laugh.

 

[Oddish]

Remember the Amelia Earhart planet?

They kept saying how gorgeous that civilization was with big cities next to enormous expanses of unexplored wilderness. They were still seventy light-years away back then. I find it impossible to believe that not one of them wanted to stay, especially the Maquis people who were still considered criminals back home!!!

Each time I see the ending with the cargo hold empty it makes me laugh.

I won't even watch that episode because of the sheer stupidity of that ending. I could see the main characters staying... but Ensign Wildman, expecting a baby? Joe Carey, tossed aside for an academy dropout who assaulted him? EVERY SINGLE ONE of the 146 or so people aboard? That practically elevates Janeway to cult-leader status.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I won't even watch that episode because of the sheer stupidity of that ending. I could see the main characters staying... but Ensign Wildman, expecting a baby? Joe Carey, tossed aside for an academy dropout who assaulted him? EVERY SINGLE ONE of the 146 or so people aboard? That practically elevates Janeway to cult-leader status.

Chief Engineer is an Administerial post, concerned with the regulation of at least a third of the crew at any one time.

Do you really believe that B'Elanna wrote 50 to 60 summaries/reports on her staff, every day?

She also had to read summaries on every piece of machinery and software on the ship, and send it up the chain.

I'm not saying she's dumb, but she is not that patient.

I think Joe was Chief Engineer still, all along.

 

[Swedish Borg]

Chief Engineer is an Administerial post, concerned with the regulation of at least a third of the crew at any one time.

Do you really believe that B'Elanna wrote 50 to 60 summaries/reports on her staff, every day?

She also had to read summaries on every piece of machinery and software on the ship, and send it up the chain.

I'm not saying she's dumb, but she is not that patient.

I think Joe was Chief Engineer still, all along.

Plus as the guy in Debris noticed, she can't identify shit with a tricorder.

 

[Guy Gardener]

How would there brainwashing have worked?

Each crew man that wanted to leave for the 37s planet, was given a procedure by the Doctor?

Or Janeway edited her own memories or logs, either for vanity, or because she spun out from the betrayal of all those people trying to leave.

Maybe less people died in the trip to Caretakers array they we were told, and those people instead settled on the 37s world? Or they tried to leave, and she changed her mind about any one on the ship having free will?

Then like the Doctor in (before) latent image, she couldn't cope, so they fixed her memories.

Amelia Earhart was found on a different planet three weeks ago in Dc's Legends of Tomorrow.

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[Oddish]

I didn't say brainwashing. That's the tool used by a totalitarian regime to force obedience, and very much a blunt instrument.

Janeway's tactics seem more charisma based. People aren't forced to follow her by chemicals, mind control, propaganda, or indoctrination. They follow her because they just plain think she's awesome.

 

[fireproof78]

I didn't say brainwashing. That's the tool used by a totalitarian regime to force obedience, and very much a blunt instrument.

Janeway's tactics seem more charisma based. People aren't forced to follow her by chemicals, mind control, propaganda, or indoctrination. They follow her because they just plain think she's awesome.

Yup. Like in the episode were her and Chakotay have to stay on a planet and Tuvok takes command. Everyone is downright grief-stricken that Janeway had to be left behind. To the point that Harry Kim actually speaks up and is irritable with Tuvok for following her orders to leave them behind.