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endgame, the best trek finale?

3) The borg - AGAIN. I'm not even going to bother listing the borg episodes. It's amazing the crew still managed to stay awake on the bridge when spotting cubes, spheres or borg trapezoids...
Borg trapezoids are still in the R&D stage... :) Well, they were in and around borg space... makes sense that they would see them from time to time... Altho once they became a pain in the ass, why the queen didn't send an armada to destroy voyager is still beyond me
4) C/7 - Putting aside the sheer ickiness of it where the hell did that come from!?
why is it icky? She's a good lookin girl in her late 20s/early 30s... What's there not to like. We have seen plenty of women that prefer a man who has some "seasoning"
Plus, look at the rest of her options... Harry? :D
 
"Batmobile" Voyager was worse than "Spock's Brain".

I mean, it's like TPTB just turned their script over to some fifteen year old kid who just wanted teh uber-awsum armer ship!!!!!!!111!!!1
 
I like Timeless. Kim was universe destroying monster and it made him feel guilty.

Kirk made out withhimself, why couldn't Janeway?
 
Batmobile Voyager was one of the best parts of the episode. :techman:
Maybe that's not saying a lot for some, but I thought it was cool.
I always wondered why, when the armor started to fail, they didn't switch to conventional shields. Would have bought them a little extra time.
 
Endgame would have been a lot better without the time traveling Janeway and her ubertech.
 
My problem with Endgame goes beyond the crew reuniting with loved ones. It's just the fact that it ignored entirely the biggest premise that went on all series long. What would happen to the Maquis crew? Would they get commendation, would they get a jail sentence, and what about Namoi experiancing earth for the first time, or Seven being on earth. How would earth react to a person who has Borg implants still? There is so much stuff this finale ignored, and it was my least favorite finale in all of trek, and yes that includes These Are the Voyages. At least TATV had the monolouge at the end which was a great touch.
 
I think as a two-hour finale, it does it's job reasonably well. There's action, there are anomolies, there's time travel, and of course there are the Borg. All in all, a good encapsulation of the series as a whole, and it wraps up the series as well as it can in the runtime.

The real problem is what came before it. Or didn't, to be more accurate. There was no real set up in the final season, or sense that things were drawing to a close. It was always obvous that they would get home in the finale, even from the end of Caretaker. That was never in any serious doubt. Unlike TNG, which was resolutely only a temporary pause before the movies started, emphasising the continuing mission of the Enterprise, Voyager was going to end finally. I don't think anyone seriously expected a Voyager film, so the last season really needed to wrap things up. All we got were retreads of previous episodes, an bizarre romance, and a couple of half-hearted attempts to resolve some strands, namely Neelix staying behind, and the pointless return of Carey, only to kill him. In failing to show any of the aftermath, it all feels very abrupt. Suddenly they are fighting the Borg, and then they are home. Roll credits. We don't get to see the pay-off to seven years of the characters talking about their missed loved ones.

Whereas AGT was a brilliant story which ended TNG on a high, and WYLB rather incredibly manages to tie up so many of DS9's ongoing strands, Endgame tries to do a bit of both, and doesn't quite come off as it should. There are too many elements. IMO, they should have junked the alternate future stuff (we'd seen it all before in Timeless, but done much better) and Admiral Janeway, and simply had Voyager do all of that guff with the transwarp things in the first 50 minutes, then have a half hour giving the characters some closure.
 
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I didn't need to see the crew reunited with their families since after all it was about the journey. All the same I believe "Endgame" was a travesty for the following reasons:

1) Janeway's legacy: There were two two-parters during Voyager's run that featured the main villain trying to alter time for personal gain ("Future's End" and "Year of Hell") yet when Admiral Janeway wants to do the same thing it's okay? What?

2) Time travel: Already done to death in this series: "Time and Again", "Before and After", "Timeless", "Future's End", "Year of Hell", "Relativity" et al). Couldn't we have the crew get home using their own devices? Negotiating with an alien race to use a wormhole, creating new technology, whatever.

3) The borg - AGAIN. I'm not even going to bother listing the borg episodes. It's amazing the crew still managed to stay awake on the bridge when spotting cubes, spheres or borg trapezoids...

4) C/7 - Putting aside the sheer ickiness of it where the hell did that come from!?

I agree on most of what kimc has written above. OK, I would like to have had some scenes when they were re-united with families and friends.

I would also have like to seen a final showdown with the female Caretaker instead of another Borg story and also the return and restauration of a certain main character.

And why not a "happy ending" between Janeway and Chakotay? It was what many fans wanted.

As for finale episodes, "All Good Things" was a great final episode which did sum up TNG in the best possible way. "Endgame" was just the sad end of a once so good show.
 
Endgame? The Best Finale? Thank you for the laugh!

Honestly, I liked a lot of the elements of Endgame, the Future Janeway/Borg Queen faceoff was very well executed, it was fun to se Voyager so easily own the Borg, although that wasn't necessary, and there were some genuinely sweet moments to the episode, one of my favorite trek moments ever is the Doctor calling the Bridge and Tom Paris hearing his baby for the first time.

That being said, there were some big hangups for me. C/7? No, No & No. The thing that made the sudden Worf/Troi thing work for AGT was that it wasn't just the establishment of this new relationship that was going on, it was how it effected other characters. In the future timeline, Troi's death and all of the feelings of regret and lost opportunities seem to have split up the TNG family. Something that Borg attacks, Klingon Civil Wars and Romulan Mind Control never could do. Making it that much more important a story. I liked that we were seeing a softer side of Seven, but she was the same exact character for 4 years then in the finale you change her? That's just poor storytelling if you ask me.

While the final image was of Voayger coming home, it was a bit of a letdown, like the episode was rushing to it's end. Rather than realy tieing up the lingering questions about what would happen to the crew next, the maquis, Seven's place in the universe, they just said, "Set a course for home" and really dealt a poor hand to the longtime fans who not only wanted to see Voyager get home, but to see them get their lives in the alpha quadrant back.

I agree that Future Janeway was not necessary, it could have been accomplished with actual Janeway and Chakotay being the voice of dissent. Those two were at their best when they were in disagreement and they should have brought out the best for the finale. Instead of doing that, they gave Chakotay Seven of Nine.

The whole "You've got to get the crew back now or too many of your crew will die" thing just stunk to me. They had lost plenty of crewmembers up to that point, the only thing that seemed different was that Seven was destined to die and that Tuvok was going to lose his mind. I'm sorry, Seven had her moments but she wasn't worth changing all of history for and Tuvok would be the first to demand of Janeway that she follow the Temporal Prime Directive. Knowing how the change in history could potentially cost more lives in the longun Tuvok would stop Janeway himself.

Like I said, the episode had it's moments, the moral of the above story is, forgetting all of the story issues that I have with it, there was a missing chapter that should have been in the episode out of respect for the fanbase. We didn't want to see them enter Earth orbit, we wanted to see them get all the way home.
 
4) C/7 - Putting aside the sheer ickiness of it where the hell did that come from!?
why is it icky? She's a good lookin girl in her late 20s/early 30s... What's there not to like. We have seen plenty of women that prefer a man who has some "seasoning"

I'm sorry but I've always found it icky when men twenty years older hit on me and yes I know there are some women who are fine with that.

In Seven's case though she was assimilated at a very young age and has simply not been human long enough to gain the emotional maturity needed for a serious relationship. Personally, I think it would have been interesting to see her date around a bit more.
 
And why not a "happy ending" between Janeway and Chakotay? It was what many fans wanted.

Heck, I would have been happy with a RESOLVED ending between those two. One scenario I wish they had the guts to follow through on is the original "Workforce" idea with Chakotay as Janeway's lover on Quarra. The repercussions of that would have provided a nice character arc for the two thru the end of the season and would have been an opportunity to resolve things between them one way or the other.
 
It was OK...I hated the C/7 hook up that made no sense whatso ever. It would have been more reasonable to have a Neelix/Chakotay or Janeway/Borg Queen hook up.

the last scene should have been Voyager crashing on landing because Paris is not as good a pilot as Janeway thought.
 
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