Elements of the All Good Things future that became ‘true’...

[Lance]

... in the subsequent TNG films (and television series)?

Certainly as far as the films are concerned they seemed to be heading towards it in certain ways, but not in others. The obvious difference is that the Galaxy Enterprise was destroyed in GENERATIONS but we seen Admiral Riker commanding the ‘future’ version of it in ALL GOOD THINGS (unless the Galaxy-X was Riker’s own ship, and not at all related to the original Enterprise-D except in name, somehow? ); and Deanna Troi is still alive, of course, so Worf and Riker evidently don’t have their feud.

But other things are more subtle. I see no reason why the Data we see as the dean at Cambridge couldn’t have been the supplanted B-4 version, post-NEMESIS. Lieutenant Commander Worf left Deep Space Nine to become an ambassador, exactly as he was in the future segments of the TNG finale. From FIRST CONTACT onwards Geordi has also got the ocular inplants that he sports in the future segments of ALL GOOD THINGS.

Am I remembering correctly, or was NEMESIS apparently fairly close chronologically to the same timeframe as the future segments of ALL GOOD THINGS? If so, it’s nice to see that Picard evidently isn’t suffering any of the effects of his Alzheimer’s-like mind disease, nor that those appalling future uniforms seen in ALL GOOD THINGS as well as the Voyager finale evidently haven’t materialised.

What else about the ‘future’ events has subsequently become canon?

 

[Mr_Homn]

Am I remembering correctly, or was NEMESIS apparently fairly close chronologically to the same timeframe as the future segments of ALL GOOD THINGS?

No way. the alternate all good things future is at least 15-20 years after the events of nemesis.. picard has plenty of time to start showing symptoms :P


Edit- according to memory alpha, there is a 16 year difference (2379-2395) Less than I thought, but still plenty of time


I'd say Wesley coming back to starfleet ended up as canon, since we see him in the nemesis wedding (or was that deleted? been a while since i saw that pile of shit movie)

 

[sojourner]

He was cut from the theatrical version.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

You can still see Wes at the reception. No dialogue though.

 

[BillJ]

Worf was a governor of a colony world and a former member of the High Council, not an ambassador.

 

[Timo]

We could quote TNG and DS9 in general as evidence for the great plausibility and indeed likelihood of rapid shifts in Worf's profession and political stature, though.

And Klingons are indeed using the ship type introduced in "AGT...", in a variety of roles and configurations. Although admittedly only one has been seen before ST:NEM, as the command ship of Chancellor Gowron when he goes to war; the others appear in competing "possible future" stories, some of these more or less concurrent with "AGT.."

Timo Saloniemi

 

[PamalaLauren]

He was cut from the theatrical version.

I celebrated the day he announced they cut his scene. Poor guy but frankly that movie was going to be crap anyhow, it didn't need more to be put in. How the hell do you explain Wesley Crusher? The whole beginning of the movie would have been overshawdowed with questions of how and why.

Anyhow I think All Good Things was a possibility, not a reality. It was a glimpse into the potential future that was to be created and I think, especially since Picard did tell everyone about it (right?) that the purpose was to allow them to make the appropriate changes they needed to alter what could be.

So of course Geordi would go ahead and get his "eyes".

Yes B4 could be the professor but honestly that whole thing makes me see red. If they ever try to suggest that, I'd be pissed. Data is dead, B4 is not Data. That whole data transfer never should have happened.

 

[Lance]

Although it was removed before shooting began, the early scripts for Nemesis also mentioned Geordi being at the wedding reception with his wife, Leah Brahms. In the anti-time future created by Q, he also mentions Leah being his wife.

Yeah, I know it isn't canon, it's not in the finished movie. But it would have been another link if they hadn't cut it. Maybe it's only Geordi whose life is going to turn out pretty much exactly the way we saw it in All Good Things?

 

[C.E. Evans]

He was cut from the theatrical version.

I celebrated the day he announced they cut his scene. Poor guy but frankly that movie was going to be crap anyhow, it didn't need more to be put in. How the hell do you explain Wesley Crusher? The whole beginning of the movie would have been overshawdowed with questions of how and why.

Not really, because Wesley's time with the Traveler was never integral to the film, much like the backstories of much of the TNG cast when they transitioned to the big screen (like references to the Dominion War and the Farpoint Mission, they were mainly glossed over or mentioned only in passing if it was relevant to the current movie).

For Wesley, all that's needed is a brief throwaway line about his returning to Starfleet after being away for while, and even that isn't really needed for a small cameo since it would be apparent onscreen that he was back, and may have been for a while now.

 

[davejames]

Yes B4 could be the professor but honestly that whole thing makes me see red. If they ever try to suggest that, I'd be pissed. Data is dead, B4 is not Data. That whole data transfer never should have happened.

I don't really see what the big problem is. It's really Data's programming and memories that make him who he is; as long as that remains intact, it shouldn't really matter which of Soong's android bodies it goes into (since they all appear to work the same way).

It's certainly a whole lot more plausible than Spock somehow storing his consciousness in McCoy's mind in STII, and then later having it somehow transferred back to his younger, regenerated body in a Vulcan ritual.

 

[Sindatur]

Yes B4 could be the professor but honestly that whole thing makes me see red. If they ever try to suggest that, I'd be pissed. Data is dead, B4 is not Data. That whole data transfer never should have happened.

I don't really see what the big problem is. It's really Data's programming and memories that make him who he is; as long as that remains intact, it shouldn't really matter which of Soong's android bodies it goes into (since they all appear to work the same way).

It's certainly a whole lot more plausible than Spock somehow storing his consciousness in McCoy's mind in STII, and then later having it somehow transferred back to his younger, regenerated body in a Vulcan ritual.

Agreed. If B4 had any of his own experiences, before the upload, and merged those with the Data Upload, then, it wouldn't necessarily be Data, but, since he's pretty much a copy of Data, there really is no more difference here then in Julianna being transferred into her android body.

 

[Captaindemotion]

How the hell do you explain Wesley Crusher? The whole beginning of the movie would have been overshawdowed with questions of how and why.

You're supposing that more than a few people gave a crap about him. It had been 7 or 8 years since he'd last been seen onscreen and that was in a guest role. If people even remembered him, they would just have assumed that he'd returned from his travels and accepted it.

It had only been 2 or 3 years since we saw Worf heading off as the Federation's ambassador to the Klingon Empire, but somehow the whole of the movie wasn't overshadowed by explanations as to why he was back on the Enterprise in Starflee uniform.

 

[F. King Daniel]

A big thing that DOESN'T add up is Romulus. Mentioned in the anti-time future, blown to smithereens in the Prime future's 2387.

Maybe Anti-Time Future Spock remembered to set his alarm the night before and stopped it in time.

In the post-series novels, a few things, like Picard and Beverly getting married, have happened.

 

[Timo]

Romulus dying was a chance event; as you indicate, it came down to timing and political will, not inevitable forces of nature...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[sojourner]

Although it was removed before shooting began, the early scripts for Nemesis also mentioned Geordi being at the wedding reception with his wife, Leah Brahms. In the anti-time future created by Q, he also mentions Leah being his wife.

That would have been a big WTF? for the fans considering when he finally met her she was nothing like he hoped and they didn't get along.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Although it was removed before shooting began, the early scripts for Nemesis also mentioned Geordi being at the wedding reception with his wife, Leah Brahms. In the anti-time future created by Q, he also mentions Leah being his wife.

That would have been a big WTF? for the fans considering when he finally met her she was nothing like he hoped and they didn't get along.

By the end of the episode, however, they were on considerably friendlier terms. The only real hangup preventing them from being a couple was that Leah was married at the time.

By the time of Nemesis--some twelve years later--that could easily no longer be the case.

 

[Christopher]

The obvious difference is that the Galaxy Enterprise was destroyed in GENERATIONS but we seen Admiral Riker commanding the ‘future’ version of it in ALL GOOD THINGS (unless the Galaxy-X was Riker’s own ship, and not at all related to the original Enterprise-D except in name, somehow? )

Nope -- it has "USS ENTERPRISE NCC-1701-D" written on its hull, clearly visible in its first flyby shot.

Lieutenant Commander Worf left Deep Space Nine to become an ambassador, exactly as he was in the future segments of the TNG finale.

Not correct. At the end of DS9, Worf became the Federation ambassador to Qo'noS, a representative of the UFP government. In AGT's future, Worf was the governor of H'atoria, an official in the Klingon government.

Also, remember that by Nemesis, Worf had given up his ambassadorship and returned to Starfleet.

I'd say Wesley coming back to starfleet ended up as canon, since we see him in the nemesis wedding (or was that deleted?...)

We saw a brief glimpse of Wes in uniform in a couple of shots, but all his dialogue was deleted, so it wasn't clear whether he'd actually returned to Starfleet or just come back from Traveler-land for the wedding and ended up in uniform for some reason (the novel A Time for War, A Time for Peace goes the latter route and offers an amusing explanation for the uniform).

I don't really see what the big problem is. It's really Data's programming and memories that make him who he is; as long as that remains intact, it shouldn't really matter which of Soong's android bodies it goes into (since they all appear to work the same way).

The film itself argues otherwise:

LAFORGE: Well, I'd say he has the same internal mechanics as Data but not as much positronic development. The neural pathways aren't nearly as sophisticated. I’d say he's a ...prototype. Something Doctor Soong created prior to Data.

So the body works the same, but the brain's hardware is cruder. The whole idea behind B-4 is that he wasn't the same as Data, that he didn't have the same potential. When Data tried downloading his memories into B-4, it didn't take. B-4 couldn't run Data's software any more than a Commodore 64 could run World of Warcraft or whatever. At most, he could process a few fragments of Data's far more complex neural matrix, the odd bit of memory, as we saw at the end.

(Of course, that final scene was put in by studio fiat as a backdoor, a way to bring Data back if the film was a hit and Spiner could be convinced/paid enough to play the role again. But the screenwriters' intent was just the opposite, that B-4 couldn't be like Data because he was too limited -- a thematic parallel to Picard's clone Shinzon being unable to learn and grow, as Data's dialogue made explicit in the Stellar Cartography scene. The idea was that both Shinzon and B-4 represented failed, inadequate copies, trapped by their own histories and limits and thus unable to grow as the originals had.)

 

[BillJ]

Well, it's not fair to call B4 a copy since be came before Data.

 

[PamalaLauren]

Of course, that final scene was put in by studio fiat as a backdoor, a way to bring Data back if the film was a hit and Spiner could be convinced/paid enough to play the role again.

Exactly. And I think most people saw it for what it was. But from what I understand Brent was pretty dead set on never playing the role again and he's kind of held true to that even to this day.

I mean he made a point, I think either on Twitter (yes I follow him) or maybe an interview. He's far too old to play Data anymore and as far as he knew, Data wasn't supposed to age. I think this is backed up by the episode where Data meets his mother. He had no programming that allowed for aging and dying.

Since Brent helped write the screenplay for Nemesis it's pretty obvious what he intended for himself in that movie. Of course they wanted to leave a door open, probably for the reason you stated. That's something I've always disliked about Star Trek in general. Is the writers leaving a door open to change something that never should have happened.

 

[Christopher]

^That's not specific to Star Trek, it's just the nature of motion picture franchises, and to some extent of serial fiction in general. When something isn't the exclusive creation of a single author, it's common to include such hedges and backdoors in case later creators decide to take things in a different direction.

But my point is that people dwell too much on the minor backdoor bit that the studio insisted on including and make the mistake of assuming that the sole and exclusive purpose of introducing B-4 was to provide a means for Data's resurrection -- which is overlooking that the whole thematic point of the character in every other respect is that he can never be Data, that he's as fundamentally limited and trapped as Shinzon is. That's the role he plays within Nemesis itself, regardless of whatever backdoors the studio insisted on sticking in for the benefit of possible subsequent films.