Do you think in this Sherlock, Sherlock and Mycroft had different mothers? They never talk about their mother or a mother in fact.
ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion
- Thread starter Allyn Gibson
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There could be something tragic in that story, hence a reason not to bring her up.
I don't believe the Canon Holmes ever referred to either parent. For that matter, neither did Canon Watson.
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There was that bit in Sherlock last season where Sherlock's parents randomly showed up for a scene or two and turned out to be extremely ordinary people, not at all what you'd expect Sherlock and Mycroft Holmes's parents to have been like. (And they were played by Benedict Cumberbatch's real parents, both actors themselves -- including Wanda Ventham, who played three different roles in Doctor Who and was a recurring lead in UFO.)
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I wasn't a big fan of the Kitty arc and was relieved to see she wasn't going to stick around for the whole season. I didn't necessarily dislike her character, I just felt that her presence detracted from the show overall and I kept wishing they'd get back to the regular Holmes-Watson dynamic instead of having this third wheel around.
So sad to see Sherlock's state at the end of this episode. I wonder who his father will be played by and how that mysterious relationship will play out. I also hope that they use flashbacks to show us what happened in those three days between Sherlock's relapse and when Joan was talking to him on the roof.
So sad to see Sherlock's state at the end of this episode. I wonder who his father will be played by and how that mysterious relationship will play out. I also hope that they use flashbacks to show us what happened in those three days between Sherlock's relapse and when Joan was talking to him on the roof.
John Noble cast as Sherlock's father - http://tvline.com/2015/06/03/elementary-john-noble-sherlock-father-season-4
Excellent choice. I was kind of hoping for someone with a Holmesian connection, but Noble's proved in Fringe that he can do terrific work as a father with a complicated relationship with his son -- although it didn't work out so well when he played the reverse in Sleepy Hollow, due to inconsistent writing.
John Noble as Sherlock's father... good choice. 
Finally got to see the rest of the season. And I have to admit, even with Sherlock's admission that he's struggling with maintaining his sobriety earlier in the season, his relapse was a bit rushed. Granted, he was taunted by Oscar the whole episode, but maybe I'd have liked to see more temptation when they were in that drug den. But except for impatience at having to wait while Oscar shoots up, and which I read as concern for Alfredo, there was no hint that Sherlock's actually tempted to use again at that point. So, smashing Oscar's head in was predictable (even if not desirable), but him actually taking the kit and going into the tunnel was not. This didn't feel like a natural progression, more like an executive decision to shake things up in the series.
Overall, Kitty's final episodes certainly were phenomenal, the rest of the season unfortunately rather average to boring, especially the way things went back to season 2-normal after Kitty's departure. Sherlock's father could make things interesting again. And I hope to see Kitty (and Irene!) again at some point.
Finally got to see the rest of the season. And I have to admit, even with Sherlock's admission that he's struggling with maintaining his sobriety earlier in the season, his relapse was a bit rushed. Granted, he was taunted by Oscar the whole episode, but maybe I'd have liked to see more temptation when they were in that drug den. But except for impatience at having to wait while Oscar shoots up, and which I read as concern for Alfredo, there was no hint that Sherlock's actually tempted to use again at that point. So, smashing Oscar's head in was predictable (even if not desirable), but him actually taking the kit and going into the tunnel was not. This didn't feel like a natural progression, more like an executive decision to shake things up in the series.
Overall, Kitty's final episodes certainly were phenomenal, the rest of the season unfortunately rather average to boring, especially the way things went back to season 2-normal after Kitty's departure. Sherlock's father could make things interesting again. And I hope to see Kitty (and Irene!) again at some point.
He's an addict. He is tempted to use again at every waking moment of his life. The only question is how strongly he's able to resist that temptation.
Except that relapses do happen. It's a reality that every addict has to face, that they could lose the struggle with temptation at any time. So there's nothing artificial or contrived about it. This is a show that's always been very authentic, informed, and sensitive in its treatment of addiction and recovery, and dealing with a relapse is not an uncommon part of that process. So it was probably inevitable that they'd get around to a relapse eventually, if the show ran long enough.
You mean Jamie, but yes, I'd like to see them both again too. Maybe even working together?
I'm happy that they're making him a series regular. It's nice to know that the writers are going to commit to this dynamic long-term.
VERY interesting choice! 
Next season is going to be fun!
Next season is going to be fun!
I understand that. And I know quite a bit about addiction since I've worked with (drug-)addicts for quite some time now.
I'm just saying that for me the way they've shown the development up until the relapse doesn't work - within the TV-show. That's not to say that it isn't realistic because, you're right, of course, a relapse can happen anytime without any "logical" reason for it. But it's a TV-show, and at least I am not watching Elementary for its realistic portrayal of addiction (because, as I said, I have enough of that in real life). So, I don't want to see Sherlock being dumbed down for not realizing Oscar's motivations until the end. Of course, a relapse was bound to happen - why else make such a big deal out of Sherlock's addiction with sober companions, AA-meetings and sponsors etc., but if it was going to happen I'd have wished for a more poignant moment. Either that Alfredo had died despite his efforts, or after Kitty left etc... well, perhaps more clichéd but it would have been easier to swallow for me instead of just tasting of an "end of season/cliffhanger-shake-up" just to keep the audience on their toes.
Ah, Moriarty will always be Irene for me... Irene Moriarty in my head-canon. *g*
I quite like it for its sincere and sensitive portrayal of the recovery process.
That, as I've said, is the part I do have a problem with. But I don't see that as the same conversation. Again, I think it would've been more potent if Sherlock had recognized all along exactly what Oscar was trying to do to him -- but had succumbed anyway.
You're right, that would've been more cliched, and too melodramatic/romanticized a portrayal of the process. The sheer randomness of it, the way the simple chemical craving overrides all other feelings and goals and priorities, is exactly what's so chilling about addiction. Once you're addicted, it's not about seeking comfort or a surrogate for companionship or whatever -- it's overridingly and fundamentally about the craving for the drug itself, beyond all other considerations. So it was fitting that the thing that pushed Sherlock into a relapse was simply being forced into contact with the triggering reminders of his old life.
Remember the end of last season, when he secreted that little bag of heroin away in a book? We thought that was Sherlock succumbing to temptation in response to the bad stuff going on in his life, but we later learned that he simply did it to test himself, to see if he would succumb, and he ultimately didn't. He had enough self-control to resist giving in as a response to personal hardship. So that wouldn't have been enough, and it would've been repetitive to make it about that in two finales in a row. It made sense that the one thing that would do it would be direct exposure to the drugs and the lifestyle themselves, something that would bypass his intellect and emotion and normal human needs and connect directly to that overpowering craving itself.
Entertainment Weekly has the first photo of John Noble as Sherlock's father from the fourth season.
His name is Morland Holmes.
His name is Morland Holmes.
Not imaginary?
Has anyone ever said to you...
"So you like Elementary, but have you tried Eli Stone?"
Has anyone ever said to you...
"So you like Elementary, but have you tried Eli Stone?"
At last--John Noble in a meaningful, potentially fascinating role!
The season premiere was last night -- it was actually pre-empted for football on our local CBS station (because the local team was playing), but it aired on the CW affiliate, which is a digital-cable tributary of the CBS station. Anyway...
John Noble joins the cast as Holmes's father, but he didn't show up until the very end. A bit early to assess his performance, but it seems promising -- a rather different personality from Walter on Fringe or Henry on Sleepy Hollow (though maybe similar to Walternate).
So Holmes and Watson's status as NYPD consultants is up in the air. I'd kind of like it if they just went freelance, consulting on private, non-police cases, so it'd be more like the canon tales. But I doubt that's going to happen, since Aidan Quinn and Jon Michael Hill are still regulars. They'll probably find some way to justify a return to the status quo within a week or so.
The setup for the case, with the guy from last season showing up to confess to two murders, asking Holmes to clear him of a third, and then shooting himself, felt very Doylean to me. Did anything like that actually happen in any of the stories? I need to reread the canon sometime...
Deeply trivial side note: I noted in the credits that the writing staff for the show now includes both Robert Hewitt Wolfe, who developed Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda with Majel Roddenberry but was fired from the show after a season and a half and replaced with inferior showrunners who dumbed the show down enormously, and Richard C. Okie, who developed Gene Roddenberry's Earth: Final Conflict with Majel Roddenberry but was fired from the show after half a season and replaced with inferior showrunners who dumbed the show down enormously. I wonder what kind of stories they've traded with each other.
John Noble joins the cast as Holmes's father, but he didn't show up until the very end. A bit early to assess his performance, but it seems promising -- a rather different personality from Walter on Fringe or Henry on Sleepy Hollow (though maybe similar to Walternate).
So Holmes and Watson's status as NYPD consultants is up in the air. I'd kind of like it if they just went freelance, consulting on private, non-police cases, so it'd be more like the canon tales. But I doubt that's going to happen, since Aidan Quinn and Jon Michael Hill are still regulars. They'll probably find some way to justify a return to the status quo within a week or so.
The setup for the case, with the guy from last season showing up to confess to two murders, asking Holmes to clear him of a third, and then shooting himself, felt very Doylean to me. Did anything like that actually happen in any of the stories? I need to reread the canon sometime...
Deeply trivial side note: I noted in the credits that the writing staff for the show now includes both Robert Hewitt Wolfe, who developed Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda with Majel Roddenberry but was fired from the show after a season and a half and replaced with inferior showrunners who dumbed the show down enormously, and Richard C. Okie, who developed Gene Roddenberry's Earth: Final Conflict with Majel Roddenberry but was fired from the show after half a season and replaced with inferior showrunners who dumbed the show down enormously. I wonder what kind of stories they've traded with each other.
My hope is that Gregson and Bell could consult with Holmes and Watson on a very unofficial basis, much like in the Canon, where they show up at the brownstone, sit in the front room, and talk through the problem which Holmes or Watson solve. I would enjoy a set-up like that for at least half the season.
Otherwise, yeah, I see the possibility of the status quo being restored sooner rather than later.
The episode, according to the writers on Twitter, was based on "The Adventure of Wisteria Lodge." There are some stark differences, but I would take a look at that story.
We seem to have lost interest in discussing Elementary. Even me!
I don't have a lot to say about last night's episode. I liked that the episode was mainly Sherlock and Joan working the case on their own, without help from the NYPD. When the character who committed the murder was introduced, I had the feeling that he was the one who did it, but I couldn't come up with a motive. (Surprisingly for Elementary, this episode kept some crucial evidence Sherlock had hidden from the audience until it was important.) I liked the deduction scene with the victim's husband. I had some issues with Joan overstepping legal bounds with the OBGYN. And the development with Marcus was a nice touch. (The Sherlock/Marcus relationship is my favorite relationship in the show, tbh.)
What I do want to talk about is the way CBS promotes the series.
The promotion for last night's episode centered almost entirely on the episode's teaser -- Sherlock's conclusion that Joan and Marcus were bumping uglies. It was amusing, and I was secretly happy when Sherlock proved himself wrong, but it was such a minor part of the episode that I don't understand why the episode was sold on that. It was an unrelated B-plot. Or, rather, the ['i]hook[/i] for the unrelated B-plot.
I like spending time with these characters. I really and truly do. I guess the marketing plan for the series is to sell the characters rather than the plot, but I feel that creates the perception that the show is more lighthearted than it really is. And last night's episode wasn't really that lighthearted.
I don't have a lot to say about last night's episode. I liked that the episode was mainly Sherlock and Joan working the case on their own, without help from the NYPD. When the character who committed the murder was introduced, I had the feeling that he was the one who did it, but I couldn't come up with a motive. (Surprisingly for Elementary, this episode kept some crucial evidence Sherlock had hidden from the audience until it was important.) I liked the deduction scene with the victim's husband. I had some issues with Joan overstepping legal bounds with the OBGYN. And the development with Marcus was a nice touch. (The Sherlock/Marcus relationship is my favorite relationship in the show, tbh.)
What I do want to talk about is the way CBS promotes the series.
The promotion for last night's episode centered almost entirely on the episode's teaser -- Sherlock's conclusion that Joan and Marcus were bumping uglies. It was amusing, and I was secretly happy when Sherlock proved himself wrong, but it was such a minor part of the episode that I don't understand why the episode was sold on that. It was an unrelated B-plot. Or, rather, the ['i]hook[/i] for the unrelated B-plot.
I like spending time with these characters. I really and truly do. I guess the marketing plan for the series is to sell the characters rather than the plot, but I feel that creates the perception that the show is more lighthearted than it really is. And last night's episode wasn't really that lighthearted.
