Spoilers Easter Eggs/Call Backs - All Episodes
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They’re just copying Star Charts 1:1 for the maps/locations. Star Charts was 24th century
One of the DNA sequences they compared was of a Zaldan
https://twitter.com/trekcore/status/919761859124883461
I have both star chart books. They are not copying the books. They are using the books as a references and making changes to the position of locations. The biggest change is the location of K-7 - it used to be a lot closer to the Alpha/Beta Quadrant border.
I noticed the changes when I compared the map seen in the ready room to the non-canon maps. They moved the border line between quadrants to the right of the Briar Patch. This change places the BP squarely in the Alpha Quadrant - it used to be in the Beta Quadrant - and made systems, like Vulcan, locations in the AQ. That is, if they have not moved the location of Vulcan.
I noticed the changes when I compared the map seen in the ready room to the non-canon maps. They moved the border line between quadrants to the right of the Briar Patch. This change places the BP squarely in the Alpha Quadrant - it used to be in the Beta Quadrant - and made systems, like Vulcan, locations in the AQ. That is, if they have not moved the location of Vulcan.
Does this mean that Sol is no longer directly on the border between the quadrants?
I do not know. They might have changed the location of Sol. Until we have a clearer view of the map, it's up in the air.
The background noises on the Klingon ship were from TNG/DS9 and the TOS movies (Wrath of Khan - Voyage Home).
Mudd mentions his wife Stella - she who inspired the android in I,Mudd.
Corvan II has probably mentioned before in this thread but is from TNG.
Regarding the map with Rura Penthe on it, the Mempa system is from TNG. Starbase 157 is from Best of Both Worlds and on the same map you can just make out Khitomeh in Klingon space.
Mudd mentions his wife Stella - she who inspired the android in I,Mudd.
Corvan II has probably mentioned before in this thread but is from TNG.
Regarding the map with Rura Penthe on it, the Mempa system is from TNG. Starbase 157 is from Best of Both Worlds and on the same map you can just make out Khitomeh in Klingon space.
Acamar - "The Vengeance Factor" (TNG)
Adelphous - "Data's Day" (TNG)
Beta Lankal - "Redemption, Part II" (TNG)
Carraya - "Birthright, Part I" (TNG)
Khitomer - "The Neutral Zone" (TNG)
Mempa system - " Redemption, Part II" (TNG)
Morska - Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Rura Penthe - Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Space Station K-7 - "The Trouble with Tribbles" (TOS)
Starbase 157 - "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I" (TNG)
Starbase 343 - "The Vengeance Factor" (TNG)
Adelphous - "Data's Day" (TNG)
Beta Lankal - "Redemption, Part II" (TNG)
Carraya - "Birthright, Part I" (TNG)
Khitomer - "The Neutral Zone" (TNG)
Mempa system - " Redemption, Part II" (TNG)
Morska - Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Rura Penthe - Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Space Station K-7 - "The Trouble with Tribbles" (TOS)
Starbase 157 - "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I" (TNG)
Starbase 343 - "The Vengeance Factor" (TNG)
One wonders whether they moved Benzar - seeing how in the Star Charts, its "way up north" and would sit between the Feds and the Romulans, not the Feds and the Klingons.
Of course, Ophiuchus ITRW (and in the Charts) faces away from the direction in which the Klingons are portrayed as dwelling.
Still, not bad going, astrography-continuity-wise. Klingons do get around, in those cloaking ships of theirs. Feds, not so much. Which is why the Klingons must be thinking Lorca has a cloak rather than a jump drive on his "ghost ship", considering that making the quoted three battle maneuvers within the allocated one month doesn't really call for a superfast hyperdrive.
The one thing where they carefully avoided cute references to other Trek is Klingon customs regarding imprisoning. Nobody mentions Rura Penthe or claims "Klingons don't take prisoners" (although that latter must always have been a joke, coming from a man who was taken prisoner by Klingons a couple of times himself!). But we get some internal inconsistency, with Lorca believing in "parading" but himself being kept aboard a prison ship instead, along with another guy who has been there for months with no parade in sight.
Timo Saloniemi
Of course, Ophiuchus ITRW (and in the Charts) faces away from the direction in which the Klingons are portrayed as dwelling.
Still, not bad going, astrography-continuity-wise. Klingons do get around, in those cloaking ships of theirs. Feds, not so much. Which is why the Klingons must be thinking Lorca has a cloak rather than a jump drive on his "ghost ship", considering that making the quoted three battle maneuvers within the allocated one month doesn't really call for a superfast hyperdrive.
The one thing where they carefully avoided cute references to other Trek is Klingon customs regarding imprisoning. Nobody mentions Rura Penthe or claims "Klingons don't take prisoners" (although that latter must always have been a joke, coming from a man who was taken prisoner by Klingons a couple of times himself!). But we get some internal inconsistency, with Lorca believing in "parading" but himself being kept aboard a prison ship instead, along with another guy who has been there for months with no parade in sight.
Timo Saloniemi
Erm, isn't the line: "Pray, Mr. Chekov, that the Klingons don't take prisoners"?
I thought he was suggesting it was better to die than be taken prisoner by them. Or are you thinking of another example that I don't recall?
It would be ST2:TWoK and the simulator scene, with Saavik as the party being talked to. And it doesn't seem as if any of the transcript makers is hearing the "that" in the sentence.
Even were the "that" there, why would Kirk say such a thing? He still has been prisoner to Klingons himself, and his treatment was nothing short of courteous.
Timo Saloniemi
Even were the "that" there, why would Kirk say such a thing? He still has been prisoner to Klingons himself, and his treatment was nothing short of courteous.
Timo Saloniemi
You can see K-7 (or at least sherman’s Planet) in its old spot on the map in lorca’s Ready room map. They moved it for the close up map in this week’s episode.
The map in Lorca’s ready room is almost 1:1 to the large Alpha-beta map in Star Charts.
The ones meant to be seen, the ones in close ups, are the ones that they moved things around.
Now star charts isn’t canon, so them moving systems around isn’t the end of the world.
But it creates a contradiction in canon lore.
According to Enterprise season 4, Klacht D’kel Bract is the briar patch, but because DSC is using the 2002 Star Charts as a refernce, they have them as two different places.
The maps are also drawn from the perspective of the 24th century, so there are bound to be some mistakes related to the time difference.
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Yup. It's just that they have either moved the Alpha/Beta meridian antispinward (to the right) by one full sector, or then moved the Klingon border the other way by one full sector. And then fine-tuned the positions of the highlights.
Since they did fine-tune the positions even for Lorca's map, we might argue that a moving Klingon border (in wartime!) is more likely than a moving Zero Meridian...
The ENT reference is problematic to start with, exact locations aside, because the Klingons having a fight with the Romulans at the Briar Patch means there are Romulans right in the middle of declared UFP space in the early 2270s!
...One might argue there should be lots of mistakes related to the fact that this is a map of enemy space. Why should our heroes know where Klingon points of interest are located and what they are called?
Regarding the star system maps, anything interesting there? We supposedly see Corvan, Benzar and one of the Ophiuci stars. What else is on those maps?
Timo Saloniemi
The federation may not have made it that far in the 23rd century.
Plus I doubt the writers of ENT cared about where the Briar Patch was in the book.
But if the argument is about the maps in DSC and the Star Charts, then the Federation is very much there in 2256 - and if it is about ENT dialogue, then the Federation again is very much there, as the Augments felt Starfleet in 2154 would send ships there.
In any case, we don't know that Klach D'Kel Brackt would actually be the Briar Patch familiar from ST:Insurrection. We only learn that the Briar Patch is the name given to Klach D'Kel Brackt by Arik Soong. It's a fairly obvious name to give - so the galaxy probably is full of places named Briar Patch, and Cueball, and Badlands, and so forth... And all the Cueballs would look more or less alike (this being the point), while all the Briar Patches would be more or less similar in their properties and thus perhaps in their looks, too. Not that the thing in "The Augments" would look much like the thing in ST:INS, though.
Timo Saloniemi
In any case, we don't know that Klach D'Kel Brackt would actually be the Briar Patch familiar from ST:Insurrection. We only learn that the Briar Patch is the name given to Klach D'Kel Brackt by Arik Soong. It's a fairly obvious name to give - so the galaxy probably is full of places named Briar Patch, and Cueball, and Badlands, and so forth... And all the Cueballs would look more or less alike (this being the point), while all the Briar Patches would be more or less similar in their properties and thus perhaps in their looks, too. Not that the thing in "The Augments" would look much like the thing in ST:INS, though.
Timo Saloniemi
For reference, here are two maps:
Here is the map from the ready room.
Here is the portion of the map from yesterday's episode.
The "blob" under the Starfleet Command emblem is labeled "Briar Patch" in the Star Trek: Star Charts and Stellar Cartography: The Starfleet Reference Library. Until recently, it was in area within the Beta Quadrant. Now, it resides in the Alpha Quadrant.
With the movement of the border, a portion of the Klingon Empire, which had nested comfortably in the BQ, was moved to the AQ. This portion would have included Sherman's Planet and Deep Space K-7, which were "under" the Briar Patch. Another thing I noticed is that the Klingon Empire is larger in this map. We should be seeing the Romulan Star Empire in the top right corner, about half-way up the Starfleet Command emblem, where the upper indentation is.
In the second picture, there has been a shuffling of the positions. Deep Space K-7 has been moved to a location nearer to the Mempa sector. The Klingon locations have been moved up to positions once held by Beta Thoridar, H'atoria, and the Azure Nebula, Khitomer is now north of Mempa, not to the "northwest". Morska system is now to the right of Rura Penthe, between RP and Mempa, when it was to the left of RP in the books. Some locations are missing from the map: Starbase 234, Epsilon 9, Barolia, and the aforementioned locations which were moved out. For those who have the Star Charts, the pages showing the Klingon Empire are on 62-63.
For the Corvan system, the Benzite system, and the Ophiucus system, we saw system maps showing their suns and orbital paths of planets. It looks like the planets were labeled.
Here is the map from the ready room.
Here is the portion of the map from yesterday's episode.
The "blob" under the Starfleet Command emblem is labeled "Briar Patch" in the Star Trek: Star Charts and Stellar Cartography: The Starfleet Reference Library. Until recently, it was in area within the Beta Quadrant. Now, it resides in the Alpha Quadrant.
With the movement of the border, a portion of the Klingon Empire, which had nested comfortably in the BQ, was moved to the AQ. This portion would have included Sherman's Planet and Deep Space K-7, which were "under" the Briar Patch. Another thing I noticed is that the Klingon Empire is larger in this map. We should be seeing the Romulan Star Empire in the top right corner, about half-way up the Starfleet Command emblem, where the upper indentation is.
In the second picture, there has been a shuffling of the positions. Deep Space K-7 has been moved to a location nearer to the Mempa sector. The Klingon locations have been moved up to positions once held by Beta Thoridar, H'atoria, and the Azure Nebula, Khitomer is now north of Mempa, not to the "northwest". Morska system is now to the right of Rura Penthe, between RP and Mempa, when it was to the left of RP in the books. Some locations are missing from the map: Starbase 234, Epsilon 9, Barolia, and the aforementioned locations which were moved out. For those who have the Star Charts, the pages showing the Klingon Empire are on 62-63.
For the Corvan system, the Benzite system, and the Ophiucus system, we saw system maps showing their suns and orbital paths of planets. It looks like the planets were labeled.
Remember space is three dimensions, these maps may follow subspace geometry to make sense, rather than euclidean space, which can easy explain inconsistencies.
Yep, move the POV in any direction and the stars will shift relative to their distance from the viewpoint.
I reported the changes between the reference works and the in-universe maps. I will not get into an in-universe discussion with you on this matter.
No, the quote is "Prayer, Mr. Saavik. The Klingons don't take prisoners." He's responding to her question "suggestions, Admiral?" (there's no "that")
Easy there, friend. It's all good. Not attacking your contribution...
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