Earth's armed forces and naval fleets in the ST universe

[Nyotarules]

I like to think United Earth concept is based on the EU but better e.g I don't see the Australians or Americans joining if open borders was the norm. Anyway the EU still has nation states, so cultural and national diversity can still exist (Although we know what their real ultimate goal is a USE just like the USA)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There is no more Bajoran Malitia after Bajor joins the Federation.

You don't know that.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

The Bajoran Miltia can defend the planet on the ground and Starfleet can defend the planet in space.

After all, it's Starfleet, not Soilfleet. Dirtfleet? Humusfleet?

 

[Tenacity]

After all, it's Starfleet, not Soilfleet. Dirtfleet? Humusfleet?

Why Starfleet then? They don't operate on the surface of stars.

Should be Spacefleet.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Why Starfleet then? They don't operate on the surface of stars.

Yet.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Why Starfleet then? They don't operate on the surface of stars.

Should be Spacefleet.

I think "Starfleet" was the best name they came up with. It's a damn sight better than all those ridiculous pulp-sounding names they tossed around in TOS' early days, such as "Space Command", "Star Service", etc.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

UESPA. (U-Spa). Sounds like U-Haul branched out into mobile rental resorts.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You don't know that.

"Absorbed".

The Militia was going to be absorbed into Starfleet.

take in or soak up (energy or a liquid or other substance) by chemical or physical action.
"buildings can be designed to absorb and retain heat"
synonyms: soak up, suck up, draw up/in, take up/in, blot up, mop up, sponge up, sop up
"when wood gets wet, it absorbs water and expands"

Everyone who was in the militia, after Bajor joins the Federation is now a Starfleet officer or able crewman in the appropriate Starfleet Uniform, answerable to the chain of command all the way up to the Admiralty on Earth, and individually splintered to a hundred million work stations across known space. There might be a new militia, but the old militia has been harvested, taken to a chop shop and eaten by Starfleet.

 

[Nyotarules]

The DS9 relaunch novels; officers/crew were free to stay in the BM OR join SF

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Militia was going to be absorbed into Starfleet.

Not necessarily ALL of it.

 

[Tenacity]

I like to think United Earth concept is based on the EU but better e.g I don't see the Australians or Americans joining if open borders was the norm.

I wonder how many of the European nations that joined the EU would have done so if they fully realized in advance that "open borders" was going to include hundred of thousand of international refugees?

Or maybe the nations would have passed on the "opportunity"

such as "Space Command", "Star Service"

Sounds like what the US Military uses for different sub-divisions.

The DS9 relaunch novels; officers/crew were free to stay in the BM OR join SF

That's it, just because a planet joins the Federation doesn't mean it's military personnel automatically become part of Starfleet.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

So instead of "seaman", would it be "starman" or "spaceman"?

 

[TommyR01D]

I wonder how many of the European nations that joined the EU would have done so if they fully realized in advance.

You could always have a referendum...

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

So instead of "seaman", would it be "starman" or "spaceman"?

I would assume "Crewman" as that has been used fairly consistently in canon to date (possibly split into Recruit & Apprentice/Trainee), with Petty Officer (split into 1 to 3 ranks, canon to date suggests no more than 2, equiv to CPL & SGT) as Section NCOs, and Chiefs, Ensigns and Lieutenants as Dept leadership.

 

[Guy Gardener]

"Able Crewman"

The encyclopaedia has swath of enlisted ranks that are respected by the invention of expensive prop jewellery/insignia, that Roddenberry and Berman did not give a toss about.


CRM1
CRM2
CRM3
PO1
PO2
CPO
SCPO
MCPO
MID1C
MID

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

"Able Crewman"

The encyclopaedia has swath of enlisted ranks that are respected by the invention of expensive prop jewellery/insignia, that Roddenberry and Berman did not give a toss about.


CRM1
CRM2
CRM3
PO1
PO2
CPO
SCPO
MCPO
MID1C
MID

Technically, Midshipmen (1st class or otherwise) are Officer Trainees/Candiates (mostly refered to as Cadet (4th to 1st Class) from TNG onwards) not enlisted, though they are typically placed under the authority of a experienced PO or Chief in the field regardless, particularly in the junior years.

Also, somewhat counter-intuitively, the CRM and PO ratings are numbered in ascending not descending order so the scheme outlined above would actually be CRM3 (aka Recruit (E1)), CRM2 (probably the rank of the "trainees" that Scotty refered to in TWOK, (E2)), CRM1 (aka Able Crewman, (E3/E4, similar to USA Specialist or USAF Senior Airman)), then PO2, PO1 and the Chief ranks.

However, a recent rewatch of ENT and comparasions with the RN and USAF systems to the ranks worn on screen (ENT for all it's flaws was the best about showing an enlisted cadre) suggested a simpler system to me: Non-Rated or junior Deck wear no insignia (refered to as Recruit or Trainee depending on level of training), civilian Able Crewman correspond to Crewman Third Class (one stripe = Ground Forces Lance Corporal), Crewman Second Class wears two stripes (Leading Seaman in RN terms, Corporal in Ground Forces), Crewman First Class wears three stripes and acts as Shift Commander in Engineering etc, for example CRM1 J. Kelly on NX-01 http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/J._Kelly, and broadly corresponds to a Ground Forces Sergeant.

The second system while no matching the terminology of the Fletcher system (perhaps PO is used in place of CRM for Shift/Section Leads) does satisfy the "no rank insignia for below Able Crewman" and also the limited amount we know about the ENT and TNG 'grey patch' systems.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

So instead of "seaman", would it be "starman" or "spaceman"?

The High Guard from Andromeda used "Spacer", which I thought was pretty silly...Crewman sounds best, IMHO. Nice and generic.

 

[USS Triumphant]

There's no solid canonical answer for this one, so my vote is that each world also maintains its own small forces for customs/anti-piracy, residential safety and law enforcement (cops, coast guard, forest rangers, etc), and some independent research and exploration missions (Vulcan Space Command, whatever the heck 7 of 9's parents were doing). It makes sense to me based on biological comfort for individual species (like the previously mentioned Vulcan environmental controls), but more importantly for my purposes, it allows for more ship designs, uniforms, ranks, and everything else, and is just more interesting.

None of this "special government district" horseshit like what we have with DC.

The idea behind having a special government district was far from "horseshit" - the idea was that the seat of government would have no owe no allegiance nor depend upon a specific state and could thus equally represent all. The "horseshit" part is that anyone was ever allowed to be a resident of it. The non-ambassadorial residential areas should be apportioned back to individual states so that they can pay taxes, VOTE, and receive services.

(And yes, I understand that DC has its own identity as a city now and the citizens would resent being reapportioned like that. We done goofed. At this point, we're probably going to have to make all of it a state except for the Mall and the embassies. And that's bad, because it will put the seat of government power inside of one state and obviate the original point. Time to move the capital to a new district made from donated land from Kansas, Missouri, and Nebraska? )

Perhaps the Federation has the above *correct*, and the Palais de la Concorde is a government district? More likely (to me) - they don't even care, and government mostly meets electronically, anyway.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The idea behind having a special government district was far from "horseshit" - the idea was that the seat of government would have no owe no allegiance nor depend upon a specific state and could thus equally represent all.

Actually, the "idea" was only due to the Pennsylvania Mutiny of 1783. Without that, there would never have been any need to section off a separate area for the U.S. capital.

You doubt me? Ask any Canadian. They function well enough having their capital in Ottawa, don't they?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Actually, the "idea" was only due to the Pennsylvania Mutiny of 1783. Without that, there would never have been any need to section off a separate area for the U.S. capital.

You doubt me? Ask any Canadian. They function well enough having their capital in Ottawa, don't they?

Ditto for the UK, France, Germany and most other developed nations even Russia and China as far as I know.