E-E & DS9

[RyuRoots]

Re: E-E & DS9

Here's how they should have done it:

The DS9 episode begins and someone mentions that Worf temporarily left to join his Enterprise friends on a wacky adventure. Later in the episode a giant DS9-style space battle brakes out near the station. The E-E shows up to help and takes on serious damage.

All the E-E crew members are beamed aboard the station. Worf returns to Ops.

Worf: "The Enterprise?"
Sisko: "Adrift but salvageable"

Hah! I'd love that.

I couldn't care less about who owns what or confusion of casual fans or any crap like that. It's one big Star Trek universe and we should have seen Sovereign-class and Intrepid-class ships in the Dominion war. Like the Defiant-class, these are cutting-edge vessels that logically should have been there. I know both types were relatively new so it wouldn't be expected to see as many of them as Excelsior-class and Miranda-class ships but there should have been some.

This is my thing. It doesn't bother me that DS9 didn't have much in the way of TNG connections later on (Worf and O'Brien notwithstanding). I just wanted to see the class in big fleet operations like Operation Return. I love the Sovereign, and it always makes me sad that it never showed up in the Dominion War. Not onscreen anyway; but in my mind, it did. This is one of those cases where I have to ignore onscreen evidence. I mean, you have a top-of-the line new class which can function as a pretty badass warship when needed, and it participates in no major battles? Uh huh.

 

[Myasishchev]

Re: E-E & DS9

No, the Enterprise-E was the property of Paramount. The story that usually gets told around here is that Paramount insisted that the Enterprise-E should not be used for television. That's why the Sovereign-class never appeared on DS9, but the other ILM-designed ships from First Contact appeared on DS9 and Voyager.

Which, if true, is just a shame. I mean, did it undermine TOS when we were introduced to the USS Constellation or Excalibur? Did it undermine TNG to see Galaxies get blown to smithereens every other episode? Well, maybe, but by George it was awesome.

 

[Anwar]

Re: E-E & DS9

Heh, can you imagine how ballistic the old timers would have gotten if they had seen a Constitution get blown apart on screen? They just can't handle their stuff being treated as anything other than divine.

 

[StarryEyed]

Re: E-E & DS9

Heh, can you imagine how ballistic the old timers would have gotten if they had seen a Constitution get blown apart on screen? They just can't handle their stuff being treated as anything other than divine.

Uhh, did you watch The Doomsday Machine, The Ultimate Computer or The Tholian Web? Or ST-III The Search For Spock?

 

[Anwar]

Re: E-E & DS9

I mean they'd freak out if a Constitution was destroyed in a TNG+ show.

 

[StarryEyed]

Re: E-E & DS9

I mean they'd freak out if a Constitution was destroyed in a TNG+ show.

Maybe a lot them on TrekBBS would. I'm an "old timer" who grew up on TOS and it wouldn't bother me.

I've only seen the phenomena of TOS fans hating every other Trek series here on TrekBBS. I've never seen anything like our TOS Forum anywhere else.

 

[doctorfoto]

Re: E-E & DS9

Personally I'm with the others who'd rather not have seen the E-E on DS9. It's mere presence would have upstaged the Defiant and every other ship in the battle - as it did in First Contact. Not to mention the whole "who would command the fleet?" question. Ds9 fans would be pissed if Picard swooped in with the Big E and started issuing orders and TNG fans would have been if Sisko started ordering the Enterprise around. I can understand the appeal to some - but I've never fully understood the whole fanboy excitement over crossovers.

 

[StarryEyed]

Re: E-E & DS9

I can understand the appeal to some - but I've never fully understood the whole fanboy excitement over crossovers.

What crossover? DS9, Voyager and The Next Generation are not separate universes. The Dominion War exists in all of them. Do you really think any Sovereign-class ships are going to be out exploring the galaxy while the Federation is fighting for its very existence? That doesn't make sense. It's not "Fanboy excitement" to expect to see Sovereign-class and Intrepid-class ships - it's logical.

Save the "fanboy" label for someone who wished for Mimbari Cruisers in the Dominion War.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Re: E-E & DS9

But you are darn right I blame the TNG cast, at least in part, for the disaster of the ENT finale.

I thought that the both of them - both Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis - were money-grubbing jerks, to even agree to take part in such a spectacle. All they had to do was READ THE SCRIPT to know that what B&B were asking them to do was take the ENT SERIES FINALE and turn it into a TNG episode.

Imagine the nerve -- accepting a paying job without thinking of your feelings first. A-holes, totally.

 

[RyuRoots]

Re: E-E & DS9

But you are darn right I blame the TNG cast, at least in part, for the disaster of the ENT finale.

I thought that the both of them - both Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis - were money-grubbing jerks, to even agree to take part in such a spectacle. All they had to do was READ THE SCRIPT to know that what B&B were asking them to do was take the ENT SERIES FINALE and turn it into a TNG episode.

Imagine the nerve -- accepting a paying job without thinking of your feelings first. A-holes, totally.

I have to agree on this one. I mean, everything I've seen or heard about TATV leads me to think it can't be very good, but I think it's silly to fault actors for taking on a script for a bad ep/bad finale. The actors aren't diehard Trekkie fans like us. They're actors. A job is a job. I mean, look at Nemesis.

 

[doctorfoto]

Re: E-E & DS9

What crossover? DS9, Voyager and The Next Generation are not separate universes. The Dominion War exists in all of them.

True, they do exist in the same universe - but a crossover is a crossover by the simplest definition of television, whether it be a crossover by the cast of Buffy and Angel or one where the Fonz visits Laverne and Shirley. That's why the actors are billed as "Special Guest Stars". And they're done for one simple reason: To boost ratings and attract fans 'crossing over' from sister shows. SOME people like that sort of thing and would like nothing less than seeing EVERY character in this "same universe" sharing an episode or film together. Personally, I think it diminishes the individuality of a series and as often as it's been done, it's rarely been done well. It's a difference of opinion - some people like to enjoy their food separately and other want it swirled all together. To each his own.

Do you really think any Sovereign-class ships are going to be out exploring the galaxy while the Federation is fighting for its very existence? That doesn't make sense.

Of course not - though I also don't think it plausible that Starfleet is going to dedicate every single ship in the fleet to the cause. Some have to be defending other places and on other missions (such as the Briar Patch mission, for example).

Do I think that Federation flagship was uninvolved in the Dominion war? Again, of course not. We just never saw it because the show is Deep Space Nine.

It's not "Fanboy excitement" to expect to see Sovereign-class and Intrepid-class ships - it's logical.

No, but I think you HAVE to be a fanboy if you're going to spend your time looking at stuff like THIS frame by frame and searching for Sovereigns and Intrepids.:

It's not hard for me to imagine that such ships are in there SOMEWHERE. My point is - from a PRODUCTION point of view, when your show is Deep Space Nine it does kind of do a disservice to the main ship of the show (as well as it's fans) to swoop in Picard and company's gigantic E-E.

If you're watching because you love watching the Defiant kick some butt then to see it get upstaged like that in its moment of glory it's a similar punch in the gut that I imagine Enterprise fans felt during TATV. Again, a difference of opinion, but as a fan of 'Nine and not so much of the other shows, it's just how I see things.

 

[dHunter333]

Re: E-E & DS9

well i would've loved it...maybe in a 3 parter, good crossover with a few tng cast, as worf comes back from insurrection

i think i hate insurrection the most......either that or final frontier and i think i just advanced insurrection to last after reading this thread
there is a mention of the son'a in ds9 season 7 by weyoun and damar


i hate insurrection
you might disagree but i bet if insurrection was about the dominion war, good space battles, combat movie, star trek wouldn't have had to have been rebooted earlier this year

first contact was popular because it was action packed and well written, my favorite tng movie

nemesis SUCKD...but insurrection was worse.....

the federation FLAGSHIP
their MOST advanced ship
it WOULD be on the frontline
maybe not at ds9 but .... man talk about missed opportunities

 

[dHunter333]

Re: E-E & DS9

god damn the more i think about it
it makes me want to cry.........not really but slightly


talk about missed opportunities....i HATE insurrection (i am currently re watching all trek in proper order, going from tos/movies/tng/ds9/voy/movies in proper order/ent/trek'09) thats my order i'm going in
i JUST watched insurrection (dugin season 7 ds9 and season 5 voy)

and i hate it....SO MUCH

*sigh*

 

[Jono]

Re: E-E & DS9

i hate insurrection
you might disagree but i bet if insurrection was about the dominion war, good space battles, combat movie, star trek wouldn't have had to have been rebooted earlier this year

Blaming Insurrection for having to have to reboot the franchise is ludicrous. I'm pretty sure Trek was on the slide before that movie hit the screens.

By that logic DS9 should have been the most popular series of all of Trek, yet it wasn't.

 

[nx1701g]

Re: E-E & DS9

Personally I'm with the others who'd rather not have seen the E-E on DS9. It's mere presence would have upstaged the Defiant and every other ship in the battle - as it did in First Contact. Not to mention the whole "who would command the fleet?" question. Ds9 fans would be pissed if Picard swooped in with the Big E and started issuing orders and TNG fans would have been if Sisko started ordering the Enterprise around. I can understand the appeal to some - but I've never fully understood the whole fanboy excitement over crossovers.

You know I agree with the parts about the Enterprise-E upstaging the Defiant and the "who would command the fleet" parts of this because he's right.

TNG fans would be pissed if Sisko's issuing orders to Picard.
DS9 fans would be pissed if Picard's issuing orders to Sisko.

 

[Photon]

Re: E-E & DS9

Personally I'm with the others who'd rather not have seen the E-E on DS9. It's mere presence would have upstaged the Defiant and every other ship in the battle - as it did in First Contact. Not to mention the whole "who would command the fleet?" question. Ds9 fans would be pissed if Picard swooped in with the Big E and started issuing orders and TNG fans would have been if Sisko started ordering the Enterprise around. I can understand the appeal to some - but I've never fully understood the whole fanboy excitement over crossovers.

You know I agree with the parts about the Enterprise-E upstaging the Defiant and the "who would command the fleet" parts of this because he's right.

TNG fans would be pissed if Sisko's issuing orders to Picard.
DS9 fans would be pissed if Picard's issuing orders to Sisko.

I'm thinkin' Martok would be issuing orders to both baldies, and Ross, and the Romulans.

 

[Anwar]

Re: E-E & DS9

Yeah, I don't think anyone would be complaining that Picard and Sisko were both taking orders from a General since they're both Captains (very prestigious Captains, but still Captains).

 

[Photon]

Re: E-E & DS9

Yeah, I don't think anyone would be complaining that Picard and Sisko were both taking orders from a General since they're both Captains (very prestigious Captains, but still Captains).

Exactly

 

[Kegg]

Re: E-E & DS9

I would have liked an off-hand reference to the Enterprise doing something in the war. I can understand why it couldn't appear and why the movies couldn't deal with the war, but a line or two like 'Picard is leading the fleet at the Offscreen Offensive Sector' would have done a lot for my geekishness.

 

[Rarewolf]

Re: E-E & DS9

take the ENT SERIES FINALE and turn it into a TNG episode.

It was more than a series finale it was an era finale. An era that started with TNG. The sucess of TNG led to 18 years, 25 seasons without a break.