E-Book Status

[KRAD]

but rather I can't stare at a screen for long periods of time like I can stare at a book. Before anyone starts yelling "but you stare at a computer all the time," an eBook reader omits a brighter light and one sits, presumably, further away from a computer than one would have to for an eBook (to make out the text).

These statements are both, categorically, wrong. First off, the primary "eBook reader" is either 1) a palm pilot of some kind, which actually does not emit a brighter light than that of a computer monitor, 2) a computer, which emits the exact same light as that of a computer monitor *wry grin*, 3) one of the newer readers like the Kindle or the Sony Reader, which are easier on the eyes than a computer monitor. And I know you can read a lot on a computer monitor because you run this board.

Secondly, you don't have to sit farther away, as the text is adjustable. In fact, for many an eBook is actually easier to read than a paper book precisely because you can adjust the text size.

 

[Rosalind]

As I said, that should no longer be a problem with digital-paper readers such as the Kindle and its successors yet to come.

And many people said they are way too expensive. you can buy 50 mmpb books with $400, which is the price of a Kindle.

It just doesn't work that way. The production of TV shows is paid for primarily by advertisers. Therefore, by not watching commercials, you are not providing the show with the financial support it needs to remain in production.

hmm... I think the point Emh was making was that you said not watching a show on TV but then buying it on DVD is the same thing as not buying the ebooks but then buying the reprints. So, yeah, it's the same thing.

As a paperback series, it would've been impossible for Pocket to publish 12 different SCE/CoE adventures per year, because there wouldn't have been enough room in the paperback schedule. [snip] So just buying the reprints that came out once or twice a year was not enough to support the original, ongoing monthly series.

well, since 6-8 of the ebooks make a trade paperback, they could always come back in that form.


ETA:

These statements are both, categorically, wrong. First off, the primary "eBook reader" is either 1) a palm pilot of some kind, which actually does not emit a brighter light than that of a computer monitor, 2) a computer, which emits the exact same light as that of a computer monitor *wry grin*, 3) one of the newer readers like the Kindle or the Sony Reader, which are easier on the eyes than a computer monitor. And I know you can read a lot on a computer monitor because you run this board.

Actually, Keith, Emh has said many times in the past that it's not the same thing. it takes a few minutes to read a thread on a board, that's doable for him, but what he can't do is reading for hours from a monitor, and that's what he prefer to do with his books.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Publishers are trying to find ways to break the "waiting for the trade" mentality. IDW does it by offering retailer incentives on virtually everything they publish, as a way of encouraging retailers to buy their product.

I've been concerned that multiple covers, rare covers and then lots of people saying they are "waiting for the trade" would make sales of ST difficult for IDW.

I make a point of buying individual issues, but usually just one of each, and I buy the trades as well because... well because I can't help myself. I bought the old Golden Press reprints of the Gold Key run because that was the only way I could find most of them in the early 80s. I bought the DC Comics reprints of those series because they came out with all-new forewords by ST writers and/or celebrities (and the paper quality was improved). I got the Key Collection and WildStorm collections because by then I simply had to have everything, even though I already had all the individual issues.

As for S&S's ST eBooks, I was initially frustrated beyond belief because they were eBook format only, my early PowerMac could not access them and my work PC was blocked by a firewall. I was then very pleased to see the reprint hardcopy collections - but that instantly meant that many of us could stop sweating about a whole line we couldn't read.

When I bought my iMac, I was able to download (and appreciate) "The Magic of Tribbles: The Making of Trials and Tribble-ations", an advance copy of the wonderful "New Frontier" short story anthology (released in eBook weeks before my Amazon hardcopy arrived), and "SCE: Where Time Stands Still" - which I simply had to have, being a TAS sequel. But there was simply so much other ST stuff to read, I haven't needed more SCE/CoE. Yet.

 

[Christopher]

As I said, that should no longer be a problem with digital-paper readers such as the Kindle and its successors yet to come.

And many people said they are way too expensive. you can buy 50 mmpb books with $400, which is the price of a Kindle.

Which is why I said "yet to come." Prices go down as a technology gets more ubiquitous. I'm sure the first cell phones were horribly expensive too. Come on, we're Trek fans, we should all have our minds firmly in the future. Maybe the eBook format hasn't entirely arrived yet, but I'm sure that within a decade or less, all but the most fanatical naysayers of today will be wondering how they ever got by without their e-paper devices.

hmm... I think the point Emh was making was that you said not watching a show on TV but then buying it on DVD is the same thing as not buying the ebooks but then buying the reprints. So, yeah, it's the same thing.

Yes, that's exactly my point. It is the same thing, and it doesn't work for the same reasons.

well, since 6-8 of the ebooks make a trade paperback, they could always come back in that form.

Theoretically, but I doubt it. I'm not sure Pocket would be willing to devote one or two full TPBs per year to just one series. I think that if CoE were to return in a print form, it would have to be in a somewhat different format.

Actually, Keith, Emh has said many times in the past that it's not the same thing. it takes a few minutes to read a thread on a board, that's doable for him, but what he can't do is reading for hours from a monitor, and that's what he prefer to do with his books.

I find that odd. I don't just read one thread at a time and then go away. I'm routinely online for an hour or two at a time. If anything, I typically spend longer at a single session staring at a computer monitor than I usually do at a single session reading from a book.

But never mind. I find it singularly pointless that we're rehashing this same debate for the five trillionth time after the eBook line has been cancelled and there's nothing to argue over anymore. I'm not trying to argue the merits of eBooks vs. print books, merely to point out that it's a fallacy to treat them as interchangeable from a "support" standpoint.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I love the SCE, and bought about a dozen of the e-books, but as others have said, I simply don't like sitting at the computer reading for long periods. Unlike Christopher and others, I generally only sit at my computer for about 15 minutes at a stretch before I get antsy, which is insufficient to get into a book. If the Kindle had been available earlier (for a more reasonable price than it is currently available), I might have bought more e-books. (but probably not all of them, as no matter what, I'll buy any dead-tree edition, and I despise double-dipping.)

I'm hoping that once the current backlog of e-books is printed in dead-tree form, (3 SCE, one TOS and one TNG volume?) that we will see more e-fiction. Hopefully, by then the Kindle (or something similar) will be in the $100 or less range.

 

[Trent Roman]

Count me among the people who loved the eBook line but only in print format. Not sure that there's something hypocritical in that--'voting with one's dollars' can include format as well as content--but whatever. And for the record, I have tried eBooks. Heck, some of them were contributors copies, since some of my own work is only available within eBooks. But I can't read on a PC. Trying to become engrossed in a story requires a very different mindset than interacting with short messages online, and it just wasn't tenable. Not to mention that since I'm in front of a monitor all day for school and work, I appreciate being able to take a break and lie down somewhere comfortable when doing pleasure reading. As a broke poor student, I can only afford to buy and maintain the one computer, so all these other electronic devices are way out of my price range (heck, I don't even have a cell phone, though I've never particularly cared to have one either), and I can't bring my monitor to bed with me (would give a new, disturbing meaning to the notion of 'computer sex').

I've also been put off by all the contestation over readers, file formats, DRM and such. I can't help but shake my head everytime somebody asks about eBooks, gets 'It's easy' as an answer, and then the thread goes on for fifty posts about all the incompatabilities and limitations inherent to the various readers, programs and file types. Hopefully, by the time handheld readers become affordable to us plebians, the format wars will likewise have settled down.

Curious that people have mentioned comic books vs. trades. Guess where I fall there? Yup, I'm a 'wait for the trade' kind of guy, insofar as I ever purchase comics. But I hate the format of comic books. Vehemently. EBooks just aren't for me, it's nothing personal, but I can't stand the traditional comic book format. I refuse to buy something I'll be done reading by the take I get through the line at the check-out counter. And filled with ads! Further, I can't stand the flimsyness of the books, side-stapled and just generally vulnerable. People tell me they put their issues in plastic protectors, but not only is that already an extra purchase beyond the book itself, I want my reading material to be able to handle the wear and tear of repeated, casual reading. I don't want to have to handle something that's supposed to be pleasuring reading as though it was some holy relic.

I get that the entertainment industry is, contrary to what one might expect, slow to respond to technological innovation and emergent social trends, whether talking about individual comics vs. trades or broadcast vs. DVD. But at the same time, is it truly useful to artificially prop up increasingly obsolete business models? There's a kind of blackmail in this attitude of 'support our fossilized media or you won't get content anymore'. There's too much money in these industries not to believe that they'll eventually adapt to changing market conditions. Live-broadcast TV and monthly comics are on the way out; eBooks aren't quite here yet.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[JWolf]

I took Aftermath as my source SCE eBook and paper reprint. The single eBook from BooksOnBoard costs $2.70. So for 5 eBooks, that would end up being $13.50. The list price of the paper edition is $16.00. With a typical %20 off coupon from the local Borders it costs $13.44 with tax. Plus there is the cost to actually get to the Borders in either gas or the cost of public transport as well as my time and effort to have to go get it. Plus, while I had to wait for Aftermath to be printed, I could have already read the eBooks contained within.

BooksOnBoard will allow purchase from outside the US. The prices quoted are US Dollars.

I have a Sony Reader PRS-505 and there are a lot of eBooks that are cheaper then the pBook equivalent or just plain free. And I do not mean illegal downloads. Now, taken all this into account, eventually, my roughly $300 investment will break even and then be ahead of the game. And do you really want to drag around a book the size and weight of Aftermath when you could haul around most if not all of the SCE/CoE in one device that's not mush heaver then a typical paperback and about the same size but thinner.

So basically, using the cost as an excuse doesn't really fly. Not in the long run. And can you really cuddle up in bed with a book the size of Aftermath? Tyr cuddling up with a Harry Potter hard cover. Doesn't work all that well. In fact quite poorly. You can with a Sony Reader easily.

Yes, I understand some of the arguments against eBooks, but really, don't feel that wash all that well. Cannot read on the computer screen when you do a lot of reading ont he computer screen already, can't take it with you when you can, etc. The only excuse I can thing of that may fly is that the outlay of the initial money for the reader is expensive. But the other excuses don't work.

So is there really a good excuse not to purchase the eBooks? The prices aren't a reason. I cannot sit at the computer and read is also not an excuse. You do it all the time. Also, most new TVs sold are LCD. So if you can sit for hours on end staring at your TV, no reason you cannot sit for hors on end reading an eBook on your LCD monitor. If you have a laptop like a lot do have, then you are not stuck in one chair at one desk. And if you have a portable reading device then you are able to read just about any place you want. Name me one good reason that can not be refuted other then the cost of a portable reader. I've not yet seen such.

And one thing nobody has yet to mention which I will now is that the SCE/CoE eBooks are not the same as a full book. These are more like short stories. So it doesn't take hours on end to read just one of them. And if you can sit at this forum for a good amount of time, you can read a single SCE/CoE ebook in one session without a problem.

 

[Turbo]

I don't think that I can add much more than has already been said here. I am another one who simply can't read eBooks on my computer. One major reason for this is that when I'm reading, I'm usually either in bed or traveling. I have yet to find an inexpensive reader for eBooks. My old Palm Pilot was not great for eBooks, as the font size was too small and it was hard to see the screen. Also, I have yet to see eBooks made for my iPhone.

I grew up in Florida, and we lost power due to hurricanes more than once. What did we do? We pulled out books and read. Even if I had a reader, it would have a limited battery life, and would likely die long before power came back on. Also, if I'm on a long plane ride, or car ride, or bus trip, what am I supposed to do once my reader's battery dies? Books require no power at all to be read.

eBook readers are also fundamentally more limited and fragile than paper books. You can drop paper books, kick them, sit on them, and even get them wet (to a degree) and they remain readable and usable. You can't do that with a reader. I am clumsy by nature, and my poor cell phones and iPods have taken many a tumble through the years - and they have not all survived. But I have never destroyed a paperback book by dropping it.

Not only that, but I tend to see books traded around a lot. I know that I have swapped many books with my parents, and they swap books around with their friends. It's nearly impossible to do so with an eBook.

I'm truly sorry to see the SCE eBook experiment end like this. I have several of the collections, and I love them. But I just don't think that eBooks are commercially viable right now. It will take a major advance in reader technology for them to be widely accepted. Readers will have to be as durable, hardy, small, portable, and easy-to-read as books, while maintaining a long, long battery life. It will also have to be iTunes-style easy to get eBooks onto the readers. We are simply not there yet.

 

[ATimson]

I took Aftermath as my source SCE eBook and paper reprint. The single eBook from BooksOnBoard costs $2.70. So for 5 eBooks, that would end up being $13.50.

Aftermath has 5 stories, not 8. Even dropping the price down to SimonSays' $2.27, that's still $18.16 for the lot (a price that will go up with later compilations, as S&S raised their prices).

Using your $13.44 for the print volume, it still comes out ahead after gas/public transit compared to the ebooks. And you can get even better savings if you shop Amazon; it's only $10.88 (with free shipping if you buy other items, and no tax).

Ebooks have the time advantage, but they certainly don't have the price advantage when compared to the omnibus volumes.

 

[KRAD]

I took Aftermath as my source SCE eBook and paper reprint. The single eBook from BooksOnBoard costs $2.70. So for 5 eBooks, that would end up being $13.50.

Aftermath has 5 stories, not 8.

You wrote it backwards, but you're right -- the stories in Aftermath were originally released as eight eBooks, not five.

 

[JWolf]

I grew up in Florida, and we lost power due to hurricanes more than once. What did we do? We pulled out books and read. Even if I had a reader, it would have a limited battery life, and would likely die long before power came back on. Also, if I'm on a long plane ride, or car ride, or bus trip, what am I supposed to do once my reader's battery dies? Books require no power at all to be read.

You can get external devices that take AA batteries to give your portable devices a boost. Also you can get car adapters to charge up your portable device. And when you go on a plane, just give your device a top up charge and you are good to go. There are ways around every excuse there.

I'm truly sorry to see the SCE eBook experiment end like this. I have several of the collections, and I love them. But I just don't think that eBooks are commercially viable right now. It will take a major advance in reader technology for them to be widely accepted. Readers will have to be as durable, hardy, small, portable, and easy-to-read as books, while maintaining a long, long battery life. It will also have to be iTunes-style easy to get eBooks onto the readers. We are simply not there yet.

You'll never ever get an electronic device to not be more fragile then a pBook. It's just not possible. Would you drop, kick, get your computer monitor wet? I think not. So why would you do so with other electronic devices that have a screen?

iTunes style easy? It's as easy as plugging in your iPod into the USB port and running iTunes to put content on. And actually it's easier as you don't need iTunes.

Other then the fact that you want a reader to be as durable as a pBook, if you ask "Are were there yet?" the answer is YES!

 

[ATimson]

You wrote it backwards...

D'oh!

 

[JWolf]

To be honest, I do wish the paper reprints of SCE/CoE never happened. That way everyone would have to ge the eBooks and maybe we'd still have more coming out.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Economics and viewing screens (which are an issue even if I can't properly express the problem) and batteries aside, there's one fundamental problem with an eBook: It takes away the wonderful feeling of holding a real book.

 

[Trent Roman]

To be honest, I do wish the paper reprints of SCE/CoE never happened. That way everyone would have to ge the eBooks and maybe we'd still have more coming out.

Well that's just silly. S.C.E. built up a large part of its fan base thanks to the reprints, and a number of people here have said it was after reading the collections that they looked into keeping up with the eBook releases. If there had been no paperback S.C.E., we wouldn't have opted for the eBooks instead, because we'd never have been exposed to the series in the first place and wouldn't know what we were missing.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Turbo]

The single eBook (Afermath) from BooksOnBoard costs $2.70. So for 5 eBooks, that would end up being $13.50. The list price of the paper edition is $16.00. [...] I have a Sony Reader PRS-505 and there are a lot of eBooks that are cheaper then the pBook equivalent or just plain free. And I do not mean illegal downloads. Now, taken all this into account, eventually, my roughly $300 investment will break even and then be ahead of the game.

Ok. Let's say I get an Sony Reader only for the S&S eBooks, and let's assume that they're all the same price as Aftermath. 72 SCE books, plus Mere Anarchy and Slings and Arrows is 84 eBooks. That comes out to $226.80. That plus the cost of the Reader is $526.80. Now, assuming that we get 20 paperback reprints (18 SCE, 1 MA, 1 S&A) at $16 each, that's $320. I'm still out $206.80.

So now let's assume that the eprice of a $7.99 MMPB is double that of the SCE books, or $5.40. I'd have to buy 80 eBooks at that price to recoup my $206.80 in savings over the MMPBs. I think I've barely bought 80 MMPBs in the past five years. And in another five years, my reader will be out of warranty and out of date, and likely in need of replacement.

And can you really cuddle up in bed with a book the size of Aftermath? Try cuddling up with a Harry Potter hard cover. Doesn't work all that well. In fact quite poorly. You can with a Sony Reader easily.

I have large hands.

Actually, I find the size of the Harry Potter hardcovers to be quite comfortable. I don't have any problem curling up in bed with them. However, while I could curl up in bed with a Reader, I cannot afford one, and I can't curl up with my computer.

I grew up in Florida, and we lost power due to hurricanes more than once. What did we do? We pulled out books and read. Even if I had a reader, it would have a limited battery life, and would likely die long before power came back on. Also, if I'm on a long plane ride, or car ride, or bus trip, what am I supposed to do once my reader's battery dies? Books require no power at all to be read.

You can get external devices that take AA batteries to give your portable devices a boost. Also you can get car adapters to charge up your portable device. And when you go on a plane, just give your device a top up charge and you are good to go. There are ways around every excuse there.

I don't want a "way around it". I don't want it to be a problem in the first place, especially when I have something that works just as well, and, in my opinion, better.

I'm truly sorry to see the SCE eBook experiment end like this. I have several of the collections, and I love them. But I just don't think that eBooks are commercially viable right now. It will take a major advance in reader technology for them to be widely accepted. Readers will have to be as durable, hardy, small, portable, and easy-to-read as books, while maintaining a long, long battery life. It will also have to be iTunes-style easy to get eBooks onto the readers. We are simply not there yet.

You'll never ever get an electronic device to not be more fragile then a pBook. It's just not possible. Would you drop, kick, get your computer monitor wet? I think not. So why would you do so with other electronic devices that have a screen?

Have you ever heard of an accident? Do you think I dropkick or drown books for fun? But if I destroy a $7.99 book doing it, it's no great tragedy. If I destroy a $300 reader doing it, then I'm out a large amount of money.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Have you ever heard of an accident? Do you think I dropkick or drown books for fun? But if I destroy a $7.99 book doing it, it's no great tragedy. If I destroy a $300 reader doing it, then I'm out a large amount of money.

QFT

I've had enough accidents with cell phones to realize the truth of this.

 

[bennyrex]

I'm kind of sad to hear that buying the collections won't help the series get past its hiatus. I was looking forward to doing my bit and helping the series by buying the collections once I hit Aftermath, but now I guess I'll just enjoy them for enjoyments sake.

I hope to one day hop onto the e-book bandwagon. For me, I guess it's a combination of taste and practical restraints. I don't like reading books on a computer monitor. My dad got me into Eric Flint's 1632 series after he got some of them for free from the Baen library site. I tried reading them on the computer, but couldn't get into them, so instead of reading them for free on the computer, I went out and bought the first couple from a used bookstore, and devoured them. They're some of my favourite books now, but I just can't get myself to focus and read them online, even though it'd be cheaper AND I could read Baltic War right now, instead of waiting for it to come in at the library. I know it's just a head-thing, because I can read non-fiction and opinion stuff for hours on the computer, but when it comes to stories, I just want to hold something in my hands. I want to be on my couch instead of the wooden kitchen chair I'm sitting in now.

When it comes to readers, I know absolutely nothing about them. It sounds like a nifty concept, and I'd like to try them, but not enough to plop a large amount of cash down for a reader. Plus, like Turbo, I'm a klutz. I'm worried that I'd destroy a reader if I got one.

It kinda bugs me, cause I'd like to show my support for the e-book line in a concrete way, and I thought buying the collections would allow me to that... oh well.

On the bright side -for me at least-, I'm just getting into the corps. I've got a LOT of reading to do before I run out of adventures of the Da Vinci to explore. And I'm looking forward to using another thread in this board to bring you guys with me as I go.

 

[KRAD]

I'm kind of sad to hear that buying the collections won't help the series get past its hiatus.

I never said that, and if anyone else said that, they were wrong. Buying the collections absolutely will help. If they sell well, it's ammunition that I can bring the higher-ups to say, "See? There's an audience for this!"

And there's still plenty more to go. There are ten collections out now, which have the first 49 eBooks. An eleventh, containing the next seven, is due this fall. And there are eighteen more eBooks to be collected after that.

While this is by no means set in stone, here's what I'm projecting for the collections after Wounds (and do keep in mind that this is subject to change, and is only my own speculation, not hard fact):

The Cleanup
---Out of the Cocoon by William Leisner
---Honor by Kevin Killiany
---Blackout by Phaedra M. Weldon
---The Cleanup by Robert T. Jeschonek

What's Past
---Progress by Terri Osborne
---The Future Begins by Steve Mollmann & Michael Schuster
---Echoes of Coventry by Richard C. White
---Distant Early Warning by Dayton Ward & Kevin Dilmore
---10 is Better Than 01 by Heather Jarman
---Many Splendors by Keith R.A. DeCandido

Turn the Page
---Turn the Page by Dayton Ward & Kevin Dilmore
---Troubleshooting by Robert Greenberger
---The Light by Jeff D. Jacques
---The Art of the Comeback by Glenn Greenberg

Remembrance of Things Past
---Signs from Heaven by Phaedra M. Weldon
---Ghost by Ilsa J. Bick
---Remembrance of Things Past by Terri Osborne

The reason for the uneven distribution is in part due to varying word counts, in part due to what works best in terms of individual volumes. I really wanted #50-56 in one collection, as they're all of a piece, with the DS9 crossovers. Obviously all of What's Past needs to be together. And the eight eBooks of the relaunch make most sense split into two books of four eBooks, since the word count for many of them is far too long to split any other way (or to even consider putting all eight in one book, as it would make Provenance of Shadows look like -- well, one of my books....).

 

[Amy Sisson]

So is there really a good excuse not to purchase the eBooks? The prices aren't a reason. I cannot sit at the computer and read is also not an excuse. You do it all the time.

I've mostly avoided this debate, but I'm finally adding my (admittedly deflated) two cents.

I don't find reading long fiction on a computer screen pleasurable. People can argue with that all they want, and tell my why it shouldn't be any different than reading on paper, but it doesn't matter because I don't find it pleasurable. I can tell you about one or two other things I don't find pleasurable that most women probably do (and some things I do find pleasurable that many women probably don't), but you may not want me to go there.

I think what people forget is that we as consumers don't owe anybody anything. If we don't like something, we won't spend our money on it, period. I feel the same way when I see writers griping about having to have a day job. I just want to stay home and write books is what I hear. OK, but I don't owe you, or anyone, a living from fiction writing. If I like your writing enough, I'll pay cold hard cash for it. If I don't, I won't.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm not going to read in a format I find unpleasurable just because people keep telling me why I should like it just fine.