Dune Part 2 2023 (24, 25, 26...)

[wayoung]

Ah, so you're a conspiracy theorist. Got it.

Today I learned reading news published by respected critics and journalists reporting that Disney restricted showings and marketing for films that they inherited from Fox and didn't want, specifically this one, makes me a conspiracy theorist. Shit. Does this mean I have to go slather myself in horse medication?

 

[crookeddy]

Today I learned reading news published by respected critics and journalists reporting that Disney restricted showings and marketing for films that they inherited from Fox and didn't want, specifically this one, makes me a conspiracy theorist. Shit. Does this mean I have to go slather myself in horse medication?

Might as well.

 

[FPAlpha]

Fair enough. Lowest *Major* opening all fall. Disney sabotaged the shit out of The Last Duel

Oh come on now really.. lay it off already because you are starting to sound like a broken clock.


So let's start the discussion about elements you think will absolutely be in the movie and which ones can be cut, assuming it'll have a runtime the same as with the first Dune movie and not be a 3.5 hours long one.


Story points ( small and big) that need to be "hit", i.e. are certain to be in the movie:

- the origin of his name Paul Muad'dib ( they already have shown the desert mouse called Muad'dib)
- Paul and Chani falling in love
- Paul convincing the Fremen to take up open arms in a concerted effort to drive out the offworlders
- Jessica and Paul drinking from the Water of Life and Paul unlocking his true potential
- The Emperor, Guild and the Bene Gesserit all get schooled by Paul at the end


Complicated parts that may be cut:

- Alia ( the movie never mentioned genetic memory once, which is a central part of Alia's story)
- the Fenrings ( works in the book because it has the time and space to explain the characters)
- Genetic Memory in general because it is a very weird concept that may not be easy to put on film
- Paul and Chani's first child Leto II getting killed


Parts i'd like to see:

- Jamis' funeral because his death taught Paul the value of life
- Sardaukar getting routed by Fremen kids and old folk
- the fight between Paul and Feyd
- showing the Baron even more as a menace and political mastermind


What are your expectations and speculations?

 

[wayoung]

Oh come on now really.. lay it off already because you are starting to sound like a broken clock.

It's almost as if three more people replied continuing the conversation....

So let's start the discussion about elements you think will absolutely be in the movie and which ones can be cut, assuming it'll have a runtime the same as with the first Dune movie and not be a 3.5 hours long one.


Story points ( small and big) that need to be "hit", i.e. are certain to be in the movie:

- the origin of his name Paul Muad'dib ( they already have shown the desert mouse called Muad'dib)
- Paul and Chani falling in love
- Paul convincing the Fremen to take up open arms in a concerted effort to drive out the offworlders
- Jessica and Paul drinking from the Water of Life and Paul unlocking his true potential
- The Emperor, Guild and the Bene Gesserit all get schooled by Paul at the end


Complicated parts that may be cut:

- Alia ( the movie never mentioned genetic memory once, which is a central part of Alia's story)
- the Fenrings ( works in the book because it has the time and space to explain the characters)
- Genetic Memory in general because it is a very weird concept that may not be easy to put on film
- Paul and Chani's first child Leto II getting killed


Parts i'd like to see:

- Jamis' funeral because his death taught Paul the value of life
- Sardaukar getting routed by Fremen kids and old folk
- the fight between Paul and Feyd
- showing the Baron even more as a menace and political mastermind


What are your expectations and speculations?]

Muad'Dib for sure. I'm surprised they didn't include it in this one, with all the references to the mouse. I suspect they'll drop Usul. Probably drop Muad'Dib being a constellation/image on the moon (depending what chapter you are reading) too since they brought up the fist but not it.

Jamis' funeral I'm not sure if they'll include or not, when they already wrapped and carried his body in this one. I think Alia will still be pre-born - my guess would be that genetic memory comes up during the water of life transformation, and just wasn't included yet because it didn't matter to this half of the story, but could be wrong. Be hard to avoid it considering Alia's fate though.

I agree the Fenrings are gone, which is understandable but disappointing. Fenring is one of my favs, and it's his showdown with Paul that's the "real" climax of the book, not Pauls fight with Feyd. Fenring could actually kill Paul. A real threat. Feyd... Isn't.

I still wouldn't be surprised if Feyd is eliminated entirely and Rabban take this place. Although making a fight where Chalamet beats Bautista is going to be thought for the choreographers


Leto 2 I could see going either way. He's unnecessary to the story, but it gives a chance for *lifts fist into the air and speaks with best Matt Barry voice* "ACTING".

Thufir not being shown killed leaves him open to return but I dunno if they'll bother or not. The story gets along fine without his subplot.

I'm hoping they do a lot of physical & fight training with Chalamet. His fight scenes need to be more impressive. That CGI face on a stunt man doing gymnastics through the Sardaukur isn't going to cut it.

I'd like a flashback showing Gurneys fight & escape. As it is he just runs into a crowd of Sardaukur and disappears.

 

[JD]

It's might not be 100% guaranteed, but at least the announcement is a good sign.
As what will and won't be in Part 2, I can't see them cutting Alia, she's to big a part of the story to leave out, and they already set up her arrival with Jessica's pregnancy. The genetic memory thing wouldn't be that hard to introduce in part 2.
I could see the Fenrings being cut, but I'm not positive about that.
I'm 50/50 on whether or not they'll introduce Feyd or just combine him and Rabban.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I doubt Feyd-Rautha will feature at all. Instead I think Paul will fight Glossu Rabban - Atreides duke against the "bull" - as others have suggested. Feyd-Rautha and an Atreides daughter would have been the father of the Kwisatz Haderach had the Bene Gesserit plan not been derailed by Jessica producing a male heir. However, introducing this element (and Hasimir Fenring as a failed Kwisatz Haderach) would likely complicate the plot too much.

Genetic memory could well be included because Alia will undoubtable be pre-born as in the book, where she is perfectly well aware who is her maternal grandfather. It's kind of essential for making her appear to be an abomination to the Bene Gesserit.

I wonder if the second movie will focus to some extent on the impact of the Fremen disruption to spice production from the point of view of the royal court on Kaitain, building up to the point where the Emperor has to take matters into his own hands and intervene directly. That might be a way to involve Irulan and Hasimir Fenring but probably not Margot Fenring or Wensicia.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

What I expect in the second part, in addition to all of the main beats for Paul's story and his relationship with Chani:

Alia, genetic memory and all. I don't see any reason it can't be introduced now, especially since it wasn't that part important in the first part. Make reference to the Bene Gesserit and Kwisatz Haderach and the audience will see the connections and go along with the new information as it plays out with the Water of Life.

Both Gurney and Thufir surviving and we see where they land after the attack. That can be quickly established in the opening scenes before the time jump without too much distraction. This will easily allow for them to play out their storylines. Gurney is definite but I can see Thufir being dropped especially since Menants weren't ever named and the Baron never showed how badly he needed Piter.

I still think it's possible to introduce Feyd-Rautha early on in the film before the time jump and quickly establish the Baron's plan to use him against Rabban. The Fenrings could work here but they can go either way. I wouldn't be surprised if they were cut out entirely, especially since we didn't see garden or the secret message to Jessica.

Obviously it will happen, but the thing I'm most looking forward to is Paul's riding test of the sandworm. I hope they spend a lot of time for that sequence.

 

[fireproof78]

I think Feyd will be present, introduced to the audience and the emperor as the heir apparent due to Rabban's oppression on Arrakis, causing the Emperor to take notice.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Both Gurney and Thufir surviving and we see where they land after the attack. That can be quickly established in the opening scenes before the time jump without too much distraction. This will easily allow for them to play out their storylines. Gurney is definite but I can see Thufir being dropped especially since Menants weren't ever named and the Baron never showed how badly he needed Piter.

All of this is exactly what I was thinking. We will get 3 or 4 cold openings for Gurney, the Emperor and Irulan, Feyd and the Harkonnens before we see Paul.

I dont really see Hawats story being needed. It was nice in the books but doesnt really serve an essential purpose to the story

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

The mentats are only there really to demonstrate another extreme human specialisation that was developed after the Butlerian Jihad had abolished all thinking machines. They never appear to be particularly good at their jobs for some reason.

 

[Marc]

The mentats are only there really to demonstrate another extreme human specialisation that was developed after the Butlerian Jihad had abolished all thinking machines. They never appear to be particularly good at their jobs for some reason.

Well we only ever say 2 and one of those was twisted and mad, the other had served House Atriedes for 3 generations so he must have had some talent.

Thufir's issue was a) he trusted the Suk conditioning and b) he was distracted by the implications of Jessica being a traitor (with Leto adding to the issue)

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Still not very good at their jobs. Piter De Vries dies by not suspecting Duke Leto might have been boobytrapped by Dr Yueh; Thufir Hawat fails to spot Harkonnen traps or anticipate their plans, and is captured by them to replace Piter De Vries. What success did any mentat achieve in any of the books?

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Now that part 2 is officially announced is it too early to start fanwanking about the cast.
It's been on my mind all day

 

[wayoung]

WB pretty clearly wants Dune to be their answer to Disney's Star Wars & Paramount's Star Trek.
Assuming the franchise becomes successful enough to continue to warrant through Villeneuve's Messiah, how do you all think the franchise will look?

If Messiah/the franchise as a whole continues to make money though I sincerely doubt that would be the end. CoD would be inevitable, just without Villeneuve directing. He'd still be an EP (although whether that's just credit or not would probably be up to him) and maybe work on the story treatment and another director/writer would come in.

After CoD is the big question. If people think Dune was unfilmable, wait until they find out about GEoD. The biggest problem I see in post CoD franchise is Momoa. He'd be pushing 50 by the time CoD is out.

There are three paths at that point I see:

If they want to stick with the OG novels I'd say skip GEOD and go right into Heretics. GEOD is important, but it's not franchise breaking and a plot summary could be done as a prologue. Then Heretics brings back the action and they don't have to deal with a movie about a giant man worm hybrid God having philosophical debates with his great *50 grand nephew and Duncan gholas and marrying the gender swapped clone of his best friend. Then they recast Duncan since he's young anyway in Heretics and then since they already altered this Duncan's DNA to bring him up to modern human abitilities just say they also altered his appearance to make him less recognizable.

Alternatively, they could go an original route, like the miniseries franchise was planning. Making up their own stories in a post CoD universe but prior to GeoD. Possibly focusing on Duncan gholas serving Leto in early stages of his transformation. That specific idea might have legal ramifications though, since that was the rumoured plot of one of the SciFi channel shows.

The third path is to adapt the BH/KJA books, which I think it's fair to say that, among a great deal of fans, that would not be very many people's preferred option.

Of course there will still be HBO/HBO Max shows too, hopefully original creations but I could see them doing, say, the Butlerian Jihad trilogy. Personally, I prefer they completely jettison the BH/KJA books for that, but The Herbert Partnership still has approval rights for so who knows if they'd allow it

 

[wayoung]

Now that part 2 is officially announced is it too early to start fanwanking about the cast.
It's been on my mind all day

Katherine Newton as Irulan. 20 years ago I'd have said Elisha Cuthbert, but I'm afraid that day has passed.

Emperor is pretty wide open. I don't think following his description in the books (75, looks 35) is required. That's not going to come across on a film I think. It'll just look like someone about the same age as Paul - which is probably why the previous adaptations used old men. Someone with Dignitas, and also so old he has a reason to have a champion and not fight Paul himself. No shortage of older actors who can pull off his small scene.

Korba is a big one, he doesn't do much in this but is pretty important for Messiah. I'd like him and Othyem played by some good unknown actors.

I don't know enough young male actors in the age group to guess at who would be Feyd

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

GEoD runs too much of a risk of becoming a laughing stock and I don't think it ever gets filmed in any form. Best you get is an epilogue telling us Leto's golden path worked with no mention of worm gods.
Would love to see Messiah made in some form though with the full cast. Really enjoyed that book and way more fun than CoD

 

[wayoung]

GEoD runs too much of a risk of becoming a laughing stock and I don't think it ever gets filmed in any form. Best you get is an epilogue telling us Leto's golden path worked with no mention of worm gods.
Would love to see Messiah made in some form though with the full cast. Really enjoyed that book and way more fun than CoD

I love Messiah. I often think it's better than Dune, and that most of the complaints are because audiences expect more Sci Fi action adventure and get a Greek tragedy instead. I think with what he did in Dune Villeneuve would make a Messiah that will leave audiences bawling their eyes out and winning Oscars. But I've never, ever, heard anyone describe it as fun

I think GEOD would be better as a prologue to Heretics than an epilogue to CoD but generally I think we're on the same wavelength

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Katherine Newton as Irulan. 20 years ago I'd have said Elisha Cuthbert, but I'm afraid that day has passed.

Emperor is pretty wide open. I don't think following his description in the books (75, looks 35) is required. That's not going to come across on a film I think. It'll just look like someone about the same age as Paul - which is probably why the previous adaptations used old men. Someone with Dignitas, and also so old he has a reason to have a champion and not fight Paul himself. No shortage of older actors who can pull off his small scene.

Korba is a big one, he doesn't do much in this but is pretty important for Messiah. I'd like him and Othyem played by some good unknown actors.

I don't know enough young male actors in the age group to guess at who would be Feyd

I don't know your Irulan choice but pretty close to my Kiernan Shipka choice lookswise. I never saw that character as much more than a pretty but characterless statue so looks are most important here

As for the emperor it might run the risk of being a copy cat part but Charles Dance would be fun.
I don't know many young male actors either tbh. I have seen one of Stellans sons or Barry Koeghan ( the "soft" young soldier from HBO Chernobyl ) linked but not gone on either

 

[wayoung]

I don't know your Irulan choice but pretty close to my Kiernan Shipka choice lookswise. I never saw that character as much more than a pretty but characterless statue so looks are most important here

As for the emperor it might run the risk of being a copy cat part but Charles Dance would be fun.
I don't know many young male actors either tbh. I have seen one of Stellans sons or Barry Koeghan ( the "soft" young soldier from HBO Chernobyl ) linked but not gone on either

I think Dance is too obvious. He's played the same role a bunch of times already. He'd do a good job, but it's a job he's done many times before. Personally Id like someone new to that kind of role, but they did have Stellan redo his King Arthur villian, but fat, so who knows, maybe they'll keep to obvious villian casting


Newton matches the physical description and is the more in demand between her and Shipka. Personally, I think she's a better actress as well. She's Paul Rudd's daughter in the next Ant Man, was the murdered daughter in 3 billboards, was Castiel's recurring "daughter" in supernatural, and was the lead in a bunch of movies the last few years, as well as modelling for a lot of big brands. Shipka would be fine for Dune where she doesn't do or say anything, but I dunno if she could meet the acting requirements of Messiah & CoD.

I'd guess Bill is who they were fancasting as Feyd? The rest are way too old, although he's in his 30's too.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Katherine Newton as Irulan. 20 years ago I'd have said Elisha Cuthbert, but I'm afraid that day has passed.

While I was rereading the book this time around, Jodie Comer popped into my head. Maybe because of all of the media for The Last Duel was in my head, but also because I'm a huge fan of hers. Perhaps not the "classical" beautiful princess of old, but I think she would be excellent for the more manipulative stuff I hear Irulan does later on (again, I've only read the first novel and only a small portion of Messiah before stopping).

Emperor is pretty wide open. I don't think following his description in the books (75, looks 35) is required. That's not going to come across on a film I think. It'll just look like someone about the same age as Paul - which is probably why the previous adaptations used old men. Someone with Dignitas, and also so old he has a reason to have a champion and not fight Paul himself. No shortage of older actors who can pull off his small scene.

Yeah, I was specifically keeping an eye out for physical descriptions for him but nothing came up. Matthew Rhys came to mind while I was reading but that's because he's already voicing a mad, conniving emperor in The Owl House.

I don't know enough young male actors in the age group to guess at who would be Feyd

Sadly, I couldn't shake the image of Sting, although I also briefly saw Joaquin Phoenix in my mind during the gladiator fights (because, well, duh).