Poll Dune (2021) Spoiler/Rating Thread
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Dune is set 10,190 years After Guild (AG) so more than 8,000 years. The timeline is uncertain but it's probably set at least 20,000 years hence. Also thinking machines are haram (taboo) so technology would have to adapt. Potentially, much knowledge was lost in the Butlerian Jihad 200 years Before Guild (BG).
Arrakis is a very inhospitable planet and it's especially hard on equipment, so the Thopters looking more rugged fits in very well, i wouldn't want a sleek Star Trek Federation design in there. The Guild Heighliners and those shuttles they use are advanced looking enough for a SF property, i like the visual distinction ( and they look and sound awesome inflight).
The Holtzman technology for reducing effective gravitational mass, folding space-time, and creating shields exists in the Dune universe so it's really far advanced beyond our current technology (at least what is publicly admitted). The Bene Tleilax have advanced biochemical tech but appear to be unable to replicate the gene sequences that would allow spice production off Arrakis. Our current biotech relies on enormous databases to store gene sequences, computers to correlate and analyse these sequences, and more recently AI to simulate protein folding so the Jihad must have hampered the Tleilaxu's abilities. I assume most of the (non-thinking) machines depicted are of Ixian or Richesean origin.
When I saw the rather analog controls of the 'Thopters, I remember thinking "good catch," they remembered that this is a "post-cyber" age from the book.
Computers and artificial intelligence aren't considered our friends here, so not even a smart phone is welcome...
Computers and artificial intelligence aren't considered our friends here, so not even a smart phone is welcome...
Way after the God Emperor's Leto II. death the Tleilaxu have developed an artificial replacement for Spice, but by then his death has re-started the Sandworm-Spice cycle again so their development just played into Leto II. plan to eliminate any dependencies humanity may have, so it can never be extinguished through a single catastrophe because it became so widespread and varied.
I doubt we'll get an adaptation of Heretics of Dune. We'll be extremely lucky to get Dune Messiah. If WB were tempted to adapt BH&KJS's books first after Dune part 2, that would be a tragedy. There are a few good ideas in their stuff but it's mostly akin to bad fanfic that contradicts FH's novels. Their misinterpretation of the existential threat to the human race caused by the thinking machines is bad enough but there are equally, if not more, egregious examples.
I went in having never read the books or seen the other movies.
I loved it. The scope and scale were incredible. Epic.
The f/x and music were great. The whole thing just looks marvelous.
I didn't realize it was a "Part I" until I saw it in the opening credits. I sure hope they finish the story...they can't leave it there!
"A"
I loved it. The scope and scale were incredible. Epic.
The f/x and music were great. The whole thing just looks marvelous.
I didn't realize it was a "Part I" until I saw it in the opening credits. I sure hope they finish the story...they can't leave it there!
"A"
Because not everyone has read the book or seen past versions.
Because the movie is its own creation and varies from the book and other adaptations
Because the other adaptations vary from this movie and the book.
Because it has its own set design and costuming and plot beats.
I've read the book a ridiculous number of times. The movie still had scenes that were not the book or were changed from the book that I could have been spoiler on. I was careful avoiding spoilers and was pleasantly surprised by a lot of it, and pissed off when someone in another location was sharing images from the film not in the marketing without marking them as spoilers.
Really good adaptaion overall, looking forward to Part 2. But I think future adaptions of the other novels would be a massive flop unfortunately. Some quick thoughts:
* Chalamet is really good as Paul, especially as a young Atreides before he becomes Muad'dib. Hard to pin his age down, he looks like he could be 17, then in another scene much older just on demeanor alone. I assume his hair will be a lot shorter in Part 2!
* Unfortunately, Zendaya didn't strike me as a compelling Chani, although I'm sure her role will expand in Part 2
* Subtitles while speaking in foreign languages was a good way to convey a lot of the hidden thoughts that are part of the novel and a bane for the first movie. In particular, Saluca Secundis and the Sardakaur were really terrifying.
* The lasgun effect was fantastic, it looked like a real laser and was more terrifying for it as it almost got to Paul and Jessica
* I think the Harkonnen invasion of Arrakeen could have gone on longer, as the main action sequence of Part 1 I wanted a bigger scope to it, but that's just me.
* I only realized that some of Paul's visions might be false when Chani stabbed him in one, so I need to go back and pay close attention to that.
Finally, for Part 2 I think if Villeneuve wants to emphasize that Paul becoming the Kwisatch Haderach / Emperor is a terrible thing, it should not just end with Paul defeating Feyd and taking the hand of Irulan - we should actually see the beginning of the jihad he unleashes and some of the terrible things that happen under in his name. It may be a downer in terms of sequels, but I think that, as good a film as this is, it's not going to be a blockbuster success commercially, and sequels would be a financial flop. So to really drive home the message of the terrible cost of what Paul is doing, and why he does it, we should see visions of the future (from future novels) as well as the jihad.
Solid A-, looking forward to seeing it again!
* Chalamet is really good as Paul, especially as a young Atreides before he becomes Muad'dib. Hard to pin his age down, he looks like he could be 17, then in another scene much older just on demeanor alone. I assume his hair will be a lot shorter in Part 2!
* Unfortunately, Zendaya didn't strike me as a compelling Chani, although I'm sure her role will expand in Part 2
* Subtitles while speaking in foreign languages was a good way to convey a lot of the hidden thoughts that are part of the novel and a bane for the first movie. In particular, Saluca Secundis and the Sardakaur were really terrifying.
* The lasgun effect was fantastic, it looked like a real laser and was more terrifying for it as it almost got to Paul and Jessica
* I think the Harkonnen invasion of Arrakeen could have gone on longer, as the main action sequence of Part 1 I wanted a bigger scope to it, but that's just me.
* I only realized that some of Paul's visions might be false when Chani stabbed him in one, so I need to go back and pay close attention to that.
Finally, for Part 2 I think if Villeneuve wants to emphasize that Paul becoming the Kwisatch Haderach / Emperor is a terrible thing, it should not just end with Paul defeating Feyd and taking the hand of Irulan - we should actually see the beginning of the jihad he unleashes and some of the terrible things that happen under in his name. It may be a downer in terms of sequels, but I think that, as good a film as this is, it's not going to be a blockbuster success commercially, and sequels would be a financial flop. So to really drive home the message of the terrible cost of what Paul is doing, and why he does it, we should see visions of the future (from future novels) as well as the jihad.
Solid A-, looking forward to seeing it again!
That's something that's been at the back of my mind. While there's a lot of great stuff in later Dune novels, there's also some stuff that's goes right off the rails, IMO. If there are to be a string of Dune movies, I wouldn't mind if they start deviating from the books, but keep the basic narrative of a galactic jihad and the dangers of a cult of personality.
Oddly, the version of Chani in the Cryo videogame of Dune from 1992 looks much more like Zendaya than Sean Young. That's prescience for you or maybe Denis Villeneuve played the game.
Dune Messiah and Children of Dune could perhaps make a 3+-hour movie or two 2-hour movies framed by God Emperor. We hear Leto II speaking at the beginning but we don't see what he has become until the end. His death at the hands of Nayla, who is controlled by the prescience-invisible Siona, ends the movie. As Leto dies, his last vision is of the Golden Path - the Scattering of humanity. Hwi Noree and the Ixian no-chambers are probably unnecessary elements in this truncation. I just don't think either Messiah or God Emperor would make for effective or successful movies on their own. Rather than a single movie, it could possibly be split into two at the point that the blinded Paul wanders off into the deep desert or perhaps when Leto is made to drink the Water of Life after being captured when looking for the Preacher. Call the whole thing God Emperor of Dune.
Dune Messiah and Children of Dune could perhaps make a 3+-hour movie or two 2-hour movies framed by God Emperor. We hear Leto II speaking at the beginning but we don't see what he has become until the end. His death at the hands of Nayla, who is controlled by the prescience-invisible Siona, ends the movie. As Leto dies, his last vision is of the Golden Path - the Scattering of humanity. Hwi Noree and the Ixian no-chambers are probably unnecessary elements in this truncation. I just don't think either Messiah or God Emperor would make for effective or successful movies on their own. Rather than a single movie, it could possibly be split into two at the point that the blinded Paul wanders off into the deep desert or perhaps when Leto is made to drink the Water of Life after being captured when looking for the Preacher. Call the whole thing God Emperor of Dune.
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Sean Young was such an incredibly unFremen looking woman in my mind. Way too white and too clean and round a face
I know it's wrong for me to say this, but one of the memories that has stayed with me all this time when I saw the '84 Dune at the theatre is of some audience members laughing when Paul referred to Young's Chani as beautiful. As a kid at the time, I thought they were simply being mean, but in hindsight, some of them might have been reacting to the dialogue, the acting, or the movie in general...
Hard to top Sci-Fi's Children of Dune, the finest work of TV sci-fi ever IMO. What I would have done to see MacAvoy as the God Emperor, he would have killed in the role! But as you say, GEOD would make for a poor movie, and straigh up probably a poor TV series as well. Imagine watching 3500+ years of people plotting against Leto II and failing!
If they want sequels to Dune a HBO mini-series is the best way to go. Dune is very cinematic, albeit hard to do. The next 3 books... less so.
The story still plays out essentially the same. To me spoilers are for things where the audience can't possibly know what is going to happen. Such as in the movie Titanic. The ship sinking is not a spoiler. What happens to Rose, Jack, and the Jewel would be. So sure, the unique scenes can be spoilers, but when you have a movie made from a book overall spoilers aren't possible. It is like the ship sinking in Titanic. People should know. So not a spoiler in my book. If they change the ending from the book or the 1984 movie to a third and unique ending, that would be worthy of spoilers, but that is part two. A lot of the fun in commenting on a movie adaption is how it is the same and differs from the book or other adaptions, both in terms of plot and in quality. From what I've seen this does not differ significantly in plot.
1). They did change the ending in the 1984 movie. Paul made it rain and the Fremen conquered the Emperor using sonic weapons. I sincerely doubt Villeneuve will be using that ending.
2).
. Then go about posting whatever you want in thread titles and non spoiler threads and those of use who feel you can spoil a movie will report you to the mods and let them decide.
If God Emperor is not suitable for adaptation as a standalone movie - unless it's drastically altered in some way I can't imagine - then Heretics and Chapterhouse certainly are also. I've only read those last two once and I have never been eager to revisit them. Of course, Frank Herbert never got to complete his final book. All we have is the dreadful drivel of a conclusion by BH&KJA, Sandworms of Dune, that completely miss the point - whether deliberately or accidentally - and which contained at least four dei ex machina. I will never accept that Frank Herbert intended Daniel and Marty to be Omnius and Erasmus, even had he conceived of those latter two characters, which seems unlikely. If someone wants to turn BH&KJA's books into a TV series, I say have at it but I won't be watching to see Paul run off to join the space circus or Jongleurs, whatever.Hard to top Sci-Fi's Children of Dune, the finest work of TV sci-fi ever IMO. What I would have done to see MacAvoy as the God Emperor, he would have killed in the role! But as you say, GEOD would make for a poor movie, and straigh up probably a poor TV series as well. Imagine watching 3500+ years of people plotting against Leto II and failing!
If they want sequels to Dune a HBO mini-series is the best way to go. Dune is very cinematic, albeit hard to do. The next 3 books... less so.
No, they should not. My dad didn't.