Remind me, what happened on that day? I know the 11th had some crazy shit going on, but I don't recall anything of note happening on the 10th.
Dune 2018 (19,20,21...)
- Thread starter wayoung
- Start date
IMHO, Paul is at best an antihero, in that he's acting to liberate the Fremen and also free the galaxy from the just-as-bad tyranny of House Corrino, as well as avenge the destruction of House Atredies, the deaths of Leto, Liet Kynes, and the enslavement/death of Thufir Hawat by House Harkonnen; if anything, the plotting by House Corinno and House Harkonnen (as well as the plotting of the Bene Gesserit to get his mom to help create the Kwizach Haderach) to destroy the Atredies drove him to do what he does at the end of the novel and help create the feared jihad in question, much as what was said in the script for the original ending of the 1984 movie previously mentioned in this thread, and also had similarities with what Dominic Vernius was going to do in recent for what happened to his House in the prequel novels, in that both men were driven to do what they did due to how the Emperor and the Landsrrad wrecked (allowed to be wrecked in the case of the Landsrrad) both houses (one man-Vernius-failed, and the other-Paul Atredies-succeeded.)
What a bunch of racist neocon assholes feels about Muslims or Islam should have no affect on this movie, and hopefully, won't do so (and if the neocons are so triggered by the word jihad, they can stay home and not go to see either of the movies.)
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One synonym for jihad would be "harrying", as in "the Harrying of the North" undertaken by William the Conqueror. The word crusade would cause as many problems as jihad and would be probably be inappropriate for devotees of the Zensunni religion. However, "harrying" does sound more than a bit silly.
"Scourging" is another possibility but it doesn't seem quite right.
"Cleansing" is the best I can come up with as there is a contemporary association with "social cleansing".
"Scourging" is another possibility but it doesn't seem quite right.
"Cleansing" is the best I can come up with as there is a contemporary association with "social cleansing".
Well.. us fans can be anal about such details
The term in Dune applies mainly to Paul's conquest of the known human realm starting with the second book and it was a central theme onwards, it doesn't apply much in the original novel.
However what do you think would the reaction be in certain areas when they see brown people engaging in a Jihad and fighting/defeating white people all over the universe and showing them as a superior fighting force?
I can guarantee you there will be tons of stupid crap from anti-muslim groups up to accusing Hollywood to have the dream of muslims taking over the world (yes, people in our era are especially stupid).
I don't believe it will be something of a problem for these movies though.
While I mostly hope the word is retained, I don't quite think this is fair. Quick Google of jihadist gets me this top news story:
'Sahel leaders meet as jihadist attackers kill 14’ – Business Day
That's today, and it's not an isolated incident. You can talk about how 'jihad' has multiple meanings, but fact is people who call themselves jihadists or are labelled so by the media have been killing a lot of people lately.
I think that's the very point he's making. The word 'jihad' makes a FAR different - and far more fear-inducing - impression on the average American mind from September 11, 2001 onward than it did on September 10th. Call it triggering if you want, but... well, FPAlpha above sums it up for me.
I actually missed this. Not sure if you didn't get the point, thought I made a mistake, or were simply making a joke. In any case, post above pretty much covers it.
What a bunch of racist neocon assholes feels about Muslims or Islam should have no affect on this movie, and hopefully, won't do so (and if the neocons are so triggered by the word jihad, they can stay home and not go to see either of the movies.)
I still don't care about what a bunch of racist morons think about the word or Islam, and neither should the production company, distribution company, producer, director, script writer, or actors. That they (and you) are concerned says something about them and you,and it isn't nice.
What's that then?
I was just thinking how depressing the future of society depicted in Dune is, given that a feudal system ruled over by warlords with private armies appears to be pretty much the norm.
At least they have some kick-ass drugs. Do any of the books really go into the lives of normal people?
Jihad? Seriously, people?
How about Buddislam? Zenshiism? Mahayana Christianity? Oh, this one is good: Orange Catholic Bible.
Just look at this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dune_religions
How about Buddislam? Zenshiism? Mahayana Christianity? Oh, this one is good: Orange Catholic Bible.
Just look at this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dune_religions
Ok, let's open the book.
Quote:
" There's another emperor I want you to note in passing -- a Hitler. He killed more than six million. Pretty good for those
days."
"Killed . . . by his legions?" Stilgar asked.
"Yes."
"Not very impressive statistics, m'Lord."
"Very good, Stil." Paul glanced at the reels in Korba's hands. Korba stood with them as though he wished he could drop them and flee. "Statistics: at a conservative estimate, I've killed sixty-one billion,
sterilized ninety planets, completely demoralized five hundred others. I've wiped out the followers of forty religions which had existed since -- "
"Unbelievers!" Korba protested. "Unbelievers all!"
"No," Paul said. "Believers."
"My Liege makes a joke," Korba said, voice trembling. "The Jihad has brought ten thousand worlds into the shining light of -- "
"Into the darkness," Paul said. "We'll be a hundred generations recovering from Muad'dib's Jihad. I find it hard to imagine that anyone will ever surpass this."
Unquote.
You see, those Space Jihadists from the Future openly compared to Hitler himself. They are even worse than Hitler - 61 billion victims! 90 planets! Can you imagine that?!
Now ask your average Citizen Joe, what he thinks about Jihad, you probably get the very some answer - "something like Hitler".
Thereby, movie about unspeakable crimes of Jihadists in Space will be warmly received by general audience. It's exactly what they expect to see.
So, nothing to worry about.
/S
That's from Dune Messiah, no?
Also:
I doubt it. I imagine most people would say something about Islamic terrorism.
Also:
I doubt it. I imagine most people would say something about Islamic terrorism.
It depends on the presentation.
The problem is that for the vast, vast majority of average Americans, the one and only time they ever hear the word jihad is in relation to Muslim terrorists and you really don't want the hero of you big sci-fi blockbuster to be associated with groups like ISIS and the Taliban. And for most people context isn't going to matter, they're just going hear jihad and freak out.
This isn't some tiny little indy that can get away with just making money from intelligent, open minded people, this is going to be a big blockbuster that is going to be trying to get as many butts in the seats as possible, even the butts of clueless idiots.
This isn't some tiny little indy that can get away with just making money from intelligent, open minded people, this is going to be a big blockbuster that is going to be trying to get as many butts in the seats as possible, even the butts of clueless idiots.
Obi-Wan Kenobi?
Here's a concept I've been working on: how about we don't pander to narrow minded morons who throw hissy fits every time the universe refuses to conform to their ignorant preconceptions?
Just a thought....
And while we're having thoughts, here's another one: how many of these people do you expect to show up to a cerebral, hard sci-fi movie directed by a very artsy director with a tendency to go for slow burn, introspective, avant-garde storytelling?
