Dune 2018 (19,20,21...)

[Greg Cox]

They are making a product called "Dune." Comparisons are inevitable.

Except . .. the Lynch movie was thirty years ago and wasn't a box-office success. Is it really that well-remembered outside fannish circles? I'm not sure that it left a deep impression on the public imagination. Are modern audiences at all that familiar with it?

The movie exists, to be sure, but how iconic is it? I suspect that DUNE will be new to most modern movie-goers.

 

[Reverend]

Except . .. the Lynch movie was thirty years ago and wasn't a box-office success. Is it really that well-remembered outside fannish circles? I'm not sure that it left a deep impression on the public imagination. Are modern audiences at all that familiar with it?

The movie exists, to be sure, but how iconic is it? I suspect that DUNE will be new to most modern movie-goers.

Certainly for those below the age of 30 or 40.

The only reason I'm even familiar with it is because I saw a still photo in some book about sci-fi movies as a teen in the late 90's and was all "Hey, that's Captain Picard in a weird rubber outfit, I wonder what this is all about?"
That was in the pre-DVD days, so it was a few years before I saw it and that was only because it came on the Science Fiction Channel (as was.) Good thing I set the VCR to record it instead of watching it live at stupid o'clock at night, because it took me like five attempts to sit through the whole thing.

 

[2takesfrakes]

A few years back, I found Children of Dune in the Cheap Bin and what a treasure it turned out to be! Chani has become a favourite character of mine, because of it -- I love her to bits. But the miniseries isn't spoken of, that I'm aware of. I never come across anything about it online, unless I'm specifically looking for it. Whereas, something like BLADERUNNER, it wasn't that unusual for me to come across modern fandom, like some model, or fan, dolled up for a Rachael shoot with the French Cut hairstyle and the black dress and the whole bit. BLADERUNNER never left the public consciousness. But DUNE doesn't seem to have been afforded that luxury, at least not in its various visual treatments. As a book, it's probably as Lord of the Rings had long been, before Peter Jackson got a hold of it.

I still haven't seen the DUNE series of 2000, mostly because I just keep forgetting to. This thread has me thinking about DUNE, though. I believe a huge problem with DUNE is that it's too intellectual. Even LOTR, if you're not into mystical, magical qualities, it's easy to follow the story. Everything's very straightforward. DUNE's not like that. There's heaps of information to be dumped on us about who's who and what's what and how it all relates, and whilst you're finding about all that, here's what it all is referencing in The Real World ... oh ... and let's try and shoehorn the story's actual narrative into all of that and see where that takes us. People just want to be entertained ... you know? And I'm not sure that DUNE can ever be cool, for that reason, the same way that STAR WARS has been, or STAR TREK became.

 

[Marc]

The only reason I'm even familiar with it is because I saw a still photo in some book about sci-fi movies as a teen in the late 90's and was all "Hey, that's Captain Picard in a weird rubber outfit, I wonder what this is all about?"

I was the other way around - had seen Dune before NextGen aired in Australia so picked Stewart up from playing Gurney Halleck.

 

[fireproof78]

Certainly for those below the age of 30 or 40.

The only reason I'm even familiar with it is because I saw a still photo in some book about sci-fi movies as a teen in the late 90's and was all "Hey, that's Captain Picard in a weird rubber outfit, I wonder what this is all about?"
That was in the pre-DVD days, so it was a few years before I saw it and that was only because it came on the Science Fiction Channel (as was.) Good thing I set the VCR to record it instead of watching it live at stupid o'clock at night, because it took me like five attempts to sit through the whole thing.

I'm 34 and have the Lynch film and had the miniseries (I prefer the miniseries overall). I watched the film after reading the book around 15 or so.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Brian Herbert tweeted that the book will be split into two films.

On the one hand, this alleviates my concerns about the adaptation as a film as oppose to a mini-series and this news follows what Villeneuve wanted (i.e. two films). On the other hand, this is commercially dangerous.

Producing the film in such a way runs the risking of alienating/confusing fans, while just confusing non-fans (or people who watched the Lynch film), a la Fellowship of the Ring. I know this is where marketing comes in, but I worry that even with the best marketing, this could be a disaster. Matrix Reloaded/Matrix Revolutions also comes to mind even though I know that's not a fair comparison.

I guess the biggest question is whether Legendary Pictures will allow Villeneuve to film both parts back-to-back.

I thought that Hollywood was backing off of splitting books in 2 ever since the 2nd half of Mockingjay underperformed and Allegiant did so badly that they canceled the final film altogether. IMO, Harry Potter & the Deathly Hallows is the only book that really pulled off the 2-movie thing and that's only because it had earned it off of the weight of the previous 6 films.

Given that Dune is a book with a lot of sequels, I'd rather they condensed it into a 3-3.5 hour movie and left room to cover the other books in the sequels instead.

I'd hate to lose Fenring yet again, but the reality is that he's a bit superfluous to the thrust of the plot, so his thread should probably go.

So he's basically the Dune equivalent of Tom Bombadil?

The only problem is you don't know which Hopkins you're going to get. The phone it in or deeply committed actor.

I put Hopkins into the same category as Brando-- even when he's phoning it in, he's still more interesting to watch than 90% of all of the other actors out there! Even though he admits he had no idea what was going on in Transformers: The Last Knight, he's still one of the best things about that movie!

Oh hell, if we're talking fantasy, let's bring Sean Connery out of retirement.

Connery is part of the holy trinity of actors who are still around but have retired and gone out on a pretty ignominious note:
Sean Connery, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
Gene Hackman, Welcome to Mooseport
Jack Nicholson, How Do You Know?

I'd love to see any of them back in the saddle again.

As long as Patrick Stewart and Sting are back.

Agreed! And agreed with those who say that Stewart has hardly aged at all in the 34 years since the David Lynch movie. (It's the one benefit of going bald at that young of an age.) I'm thinking Sting as Shaddam IV and Kyle MacLachlan as Duke Leto. Or maybe swap them. That might be more interesting. I'd also like to see cameos for Virginia Madsen & Sean Young as members of the Bene Gesserit or something.

And to continue the tradition of Star Trek actors involved with Dune, can we get Alexander Siddig somewhere in here, please?!?

Except . .. the Lynch movie was thirty years ago and wasn't a box-office success. Is it really that well-remembered outside fannish circles? I'm not sure that it left a deep impression on the public imagination.

According to the original tagline, it was "A movie beyond your imagination." Maybe that's the problem? They overshot the mark?

 

[wayoung]

To those who say Stewart hasn't aged: I've seen Stewart up close and in person recently. Trust me, he's aged. He looks a lot more like the fragile Prof X in Logan than the action hero of First Contact. Plus he has severe arthritis that limits his physical movement.

 

[Reverend]

Contrary to what I posted earlier, it just occurred to me there was something that may have kept Lynch's Dune in the popular consciousness, at least for the sliver of those of an age in the late 90's that are both gamers and RTS fans...

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I'm 34 and have the Lynch film and had the miniseries (I prefer the miniseries overall). I watched the film after reading the book around 15 or so.

Yeah, I'm one of those heathens that saw the Lynch movie before reading the book...and just like the movie, it took me several tries to make it all the way though. Though in that case it was more because as a young person, reading did not come very easily for me.

I enjoyed the mini-series' just fine, but I think that had much less impact on popular culture than Lynch's work. I doubt anyone that isn't already a Dune fan even remembers those and honestly, despite being leagues better that it's predecessor, even CoD doesn't hold up all that well.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Well, yes, he's aged a little. I recall him seeming slightly more wrinkled as far back as Star Trek: Nemesis. (Friggin' HD ruins illusions of my heroes being immortal!) I'm not saying that everything works as well now as it did 20 years ago. But he's certainly visually closer to how he looked 30 years ago than most anyone else.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Harlan Ellison weighs in on DUNE:

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[Reverend]

Well, yes, he's aged a little. I recall him seeming slightly more wrinkled as far back as Star Trek: Nemesis. (Friggin' HD ruins illusions of my heroes being immortal!) I'm not saying that everything works as well now as it did 20 years ago. But he's certainly visually closer to how he looked 30 years ago than most anyone else.

He hasn't "aged a little", he's aged over three decades. Don't let the fact that he went bald relatively young fool you. Also, there's this thing people in movies and television wear called "make-up", that can also throw one's perceptions somewhat.

 

[wayoung]

Well, yes, he's aged a little. I recall him seeming slightly more wrinkled as far back as Star Trek: Nemesis. (Friggin' HD ruins illusions of my heroes being immortal!) I'm not saying that everything works as well now as it did 20 years ago. But he's certainly visually closer to how he looked 30 years ago than most anyone else.

He's a frail old man approaching 80 with severe arthritis. He's not wearing tank tops showing off his muscles anymore like he did in his 50's.

And to continue the tradition of Star Trek actors involved with Dune, can we get Alexander Siddig somewhere in here, please?!?

There is no tradition of Trek actors appearing in Dune productions. Two actors appeared in Dune and then appeared in Trek years later.

Edit: .I suppose you can stretch it and say four, with Dorn (after TV during films) and Rhys Davies (I believe prior to his appearances in VOY?) In the Westwood games.

 

[Marc]

Two actors appeared in Dune and then appeared in Trek years later.

Three

Stewart, Brad Douriff (Pieter DeVries/Lon Suder in Voy) and Dean Stockwell (Yeuh/Colonel Grat in Ent)

 

[TrickyDickie]

Little old, no? Gurney doesn't need to be young but Dafoe is in his 60's and Glen is, what, 75? 80?

I think either one could pull it off.

Age is harped on too much these days.

*If* someone is physically up to a role, age alone shouldn't be a barrier.

 

[fireproof78]

Three

Stewart, Brad Douriff (Pieter DeVries/Lon Suder in Voy) and Dean Stockwell (Yeuh/Colonel Grat in Ent)

Does that make it a tradition? Scott Bakula and Dean Stockwell both appeared in Star Trek too. Is it a tradition for Quantum Leap actors to appear on Star Trek? Not trying to be argumentative but truly curious as to the use of the term

Also, if there is someone who I wouldn't mind reprising their role it is Brad Douriff as Pieter

 

[Greg Cox]

I think either one could pull it off.

Age is harped on too much these days.

*If* someone is physically up to a role, age alone shouldn't be a barrier.

Depends on the role. People age. That's a fact of life that can't be easily swept under the rug. And it's not just about their physical abilities, but their appearance, their bearing, etc.

You're not going to cast Anthony Hopkins as Romeo or Peter Pan. Helen Mirren's days of playing ingenues are long past. There's a reason Diana Rigg is playing Henry Higgin's mother on Broadway these days and not Eliza Doolittle, and that Dean Cain and Helen Slater are now playing Supergirl's parents on TV, not Clark or Kara.

And that's not just these days. That's always been the case. How does that old Sondheim song go again?

"First, you're another sloe-eyed vamp, then someone's mother, then you're camp . . . ."

 

[Nerys Myk]

And to continue the tradition of Star Trek actors involved with Dune, can we get Alexander Siddig somewhere in here, please?!?

Stilgar! Or maybe Liet-Kynes.

 

[wayoung]

Stilgar! Or maybe Liet-Kynes.

I like Siddig as Liet-Kynes.

 

[JD]

Agreed! And agreed with those who say that Stewart has hardly aged at all in the 34 years since the David Lynch movie. (It's the one benefit of going bald at that young of an age.) I'm thinking Sting as Shaddam IV and Kyle MacLachlan as Duke Leto. Or maybe swap them. That might be more interesting. I'd also like to see cameos for Virginia Madsen & Sean Young as members of the Bene Gesserit or something.

I wouldn't mind bringing back one or two of the cast members from Lynch's movie in the new one, but I wouldn't want to see that many of them brought back. That kind of things just ends up being a distraction if you do to many all at once. It's a bit easier to pull that kind of thing off in a TV series, where you can spread the cast members from earlier versions out over several seasons. They all got to do Dune already, let's give some other people a chance.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I expect Siddig could do Count Fenring beautifully. Relatively minor character I know, but he fleshes out the Imperial court and is the face of important elements of the conspiracy between the Baron and the Emperor, in addition to the role he plays in the Bene Gesserit breeding program, both as product and participant. He has contact with many elements of the story.