Dune 2018 (19,20,21...)

[wayoung]

Well, there are just so many notes. They find more everytime a new book deal is in the offing! First there was the safety deposit box with the prequels, then the garage with the Butlerian Jihad (which completely contradicted the outline and two chapters of the book FH already had in the works with McNelly) then the leaky attic with books 7 and 8 then the storage unit with the sidequels etc etc etc

 

[The Wormhole]

I'll entertain the ultimate fate of Duncan Idaho in Sandworms of Dune might have been Frank Herbert's intention, as Heretics and Chapterhouse did seem to be building towards something significant for the character. But that's as far as I buy into the whole "based on Frank Herbert's notes" business.

 

[fireproof78]

Just read the Original, Dune Messiah, and Children of Dune. The rest is just ancillary

 

[Skywalker]

From what I've read, they'd already written or at least started writing House Atreides before this miraculous cache of notes was discovered, so they were already planning to piggyback on Herbert's legacy.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Just read the Original, Dune Messiah, and Children of Dune. The rest is just ancillary

No. Anything written by Frank.

 

[fireproof78]

No. Anything written by Frank.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Frank Herbert's Destination: Void series was a real mindfuck when I first read it. Those books will likely never be adapted for TV or movies as they would upset too many people.

 

[The Wormhole]

No. Anything written by Frank.

I never really could get into Heretics or Chapterhouse, truth be told.

 

[wayoung]

I never really could get into Heretics or Chapterhouse, truth be told.

They are fine sci fi novels but don't reach the heights of the earlier works. Much like FH's other non-dune books.

 

[arch101]

Much as I love Dune and would love to see it as a big-budget series (the only way I think the story can be told), I'd rather see the first 3 Foundation books adapted first. Again, as a big-budget streaming series.

 

[Reverend]

The relative drop in substantive quality (though by no means the prose themselves) may have something to do with the fact that Frank Herbert really wasn't all that interested in continuing the story of Dune after the first few books and most of the rest were basically just his attempts to stop people badgering him about it.

I know I've mentioned this before somewhere, but if I were in charge of adapting the later novels, the road I'd take would be to go straight from CoD to HoD. Not skipping GEoD altogether exactly, but fold the important parts of it back into the narrative of Hod & CHoD as backstory. That can be done though simple world-building exposition or more directly though Other Memory flashbacks. Several Duncans were there for the whole thing after all, as was Siona who would become the ancestor of most, if not all of the Bene Gesserit by that point.
There's even several narrative links that could support this already present withing the text: both the archaeologist prologue and the hidden prescient message left by Leto at the ruins of Sietch Tabr.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

They are fine sci fi novels but don't reach the heights of the earlier works. Much like FH's other non-dune books.

I would agree with that, but with the qualification that there was no place to go but down. I'm also partial to Destination: Void, but it is indeed not on the level of Dune. I don't find Messiah, Children, or even God Emperor for that matter to be on the level of the first book, either.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

The original 'Blade Runner' didn't spend approximately 50% of it's run time "gazing at the scenery" just because Ridley Scott wanted to show off what his effects people could pull off, nor was it "a 1982 thing." It was a deliberate style choice to evoke the even earlier noir genre movies from four decades prior. It's a bleak, sombre world with a beat-up, hard-boiled protagonist in a world consisting mostly of smokey offices, rain drenched streets and chain-smoking femme fatales. The central plot was almost entirely besides the point and indeed, it's so straight forward it could easily be summed up in only a paragraph or two. It's a mood and character piece, and on that score at least, the sequel was quite faithful.

I can kinda see that. But I think that there's a tipping point between "establishing the mood" and "evoking tedium on par with "Manos" The Hands of Fate." For my money, both Blade Runners cross that line to varying degrees, but your mileage may vary. Still doesn't give me any confidence for Dune though.

BTW, don't the books feature some kind of time jump between the first & third books? If so, would they be able to do a more direct sequel to the David Lynch movie, what with the actors now having aged into the roles naturally?

 

[Reverend]

I can kinda see that. But I think that there's a tipping point between "establishing the mood" and "evoking tedium on par with "Manos" The Hands of Fate."

That's just a *little* bit overly hyperbolic, don't you think?

For my money, both Blade Runners cross that line to varying degrees, but your mileage may vary. Still doesn't give me any confidence for Dune though.

That rather depends on what you're looking for in a Dune movie. For my money, the director has proven he can be faithful to both the spirit and the text of the source material while still bringing something new to the table and displayed a preference for the more cerebral tone found in most of Herbert's writings and is more than competent at using both visual effects and set design to seamlessly create an immersive world.

Also, as with 'Blade Runner' the plot of 'Dune' is secondary to it's central themes and motifs. It's not really about warring noble houses and a by wrote heroes journey it may seem on the surface. Indeed, quite the contrary. It's about ecology and it's reciprocal interaction with humanity. The power of belief systems and the influence of those that can leverage those systems into action or indeed, inaction. It's about the dangers of substance dependency on both a personal and universal scale. And most of all I think it's about how utterly disastrous heroes and most especially messianic super heroes can be on a civilisation. It's also on some level an allegory for the middle east and OPEC.

BTW, don't the books feature some kind of time jump between the first & third books? If so, would they be able to do a more direct sequel to the David Lynch movie, what with the actors now having aged into the roles naturally?

None of the books carry directly on from the previous with jumps ranging from decades to millennia. If memory serves there's also a 2-3 year jump right in the middle of the first book. It's not that big of a problem from a casting point of view since very few characters appear in more than two concurrent books and most of those that appear in more have a very good reason for apparently not ageing, or have aged from infancy thus necessitating a recasting anyway. That plus it's established that spice consumption extends the natural life-span of those that consume it regularly, which is pretty much all of the main characters anyway.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

My point is that I really like the David Lynch movie and I kinda wish that they'd just do follow-ups to that rather than rebooting the whole thing.

That's just a *little* bit overly hyperbolic, don't you think?

Maybe for the first one but not the sequel.

 

[UncleRogi]

I'll entertain the ultimate fate of Duncan Idaho in Sandworms of Dune might have been Frank Herbert's intention, as Heretics and Chapterhouse did seem to be building towards something significant for the character. But that's as far as I buy into the whole "based on Frank Herbert's notes" business.

I would bet the origin of the Honored Matres in the Brian novels was pure Frank. It fits his style.
And fits nicely with where Chapterhouse seemed to be going.

 

[The Wormhole]

Good point, I forgot about that. Still, whatever Frank Herbert contributed to this books is probably just enough to fill one page in a notebook.

 

[wayoung]

A few days late posting this, but it appears the plans for Dune have changed again - from a film and TV combined universe to a two part film.

http://www.indiewire.com/2018/03/denis-villeneuve-planning-two-dune-films-1201937538/

No mention if the studio has seen or approved the scripts yet. Previous interviews had Villeneuve sounding less positive about the film, although this has him a bit more upbeat. He also said it'd take at least two years so we're looking at 2019 now as best case scenario.

Also, Funko is teasing Dune Pops. They did it referencing the 80's film while also talking about getting licenses to sci-fi channel properties, so no telling what the pops would be based on, if they do come to fruition. Could be they are in preliminary talks for the new film, which suggests it is further along than publicly revealed.

 

[fireproof78]

Also, Funko is teasing Dune Pops. They did it referencing the 80's film while also talking about getting licenses to sci-fi channel properties, so no telling what the pops would be based on, if they do come to fruition. Could be they are in preliminary talks for the new film, which suggests it is further along than publicly revealed.

Pops? Seriously?

That's the best they could do?

 

[The Wormhole]

Dune Pops could be all kinds of hella cool! Particularly if they really have some fun with the concept, like making the Baron Harkonnen Pop twice the size of a typical one. Hell, the Guild Navigator from the Lynch film practically is a Pop anyway!