Spoilers DSC Starships and Technology - Season Two Thread

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Mark_Nguyen, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...Where does that come from?

    In "Paradise Syndrome", all Spock knows apparently comes from the propagandist text carve onto the obelisk, supposedly by these folks who call themselves Preservers. Spock doesn't appear to have any prior knowledge of these folks: when he tells McCoy the Preservers seeded humanoids (seemingly as per the text he translated), McCoy says words to the effect of "Yeah, I always wondered about that" and then Spock goes "So have I". It very much seems the text on the obelisk made Spock stop wondering, then, by introducing the concept of Preservers to him.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  2. matthunter

    matthunter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Question - DSC has revealed that Starfleet is now using phasers as hand weapons, but is still mixing older starship weapons like phase cannons with the newer phaser banks. Do we feel that this has superceded the use of laser weapons in The Cage or was there a period (and can we define it?) where Starfleet went from phase to laser to phaser? And, if so, can we explain why the seemingly primitive laser suddenly came back into vogue over the phase weapons (which have stun settings, difficult for lasers to pull off)?

    I'm looking at setting an RPG in the 2180ish era so curious as to what equipment the crew would have access to. I know from the Rise of the Federation novels that transporters were temporarily banned for living tissue outside emergencies due to causing genetic damage, but when was this fixed? Shields on Starfleet ships exist as of 2163-4ish, so not a problem there.... ships capable of warp 7 but as maximum speed, so DSC having her ships with sustainable speeds of warp 7 still fits... 2180s ships likely able to cruise at warp 6 with emergency warp 7.5...
     
  3. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    After the introduction of phase cannons, I've entirely wrote off lasers as being a real thing, and just left the Cage era weapons as improved phase cannons just before the transition to phasers.
     
  4. Henoch

    Henoch Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    During CAGE, the ship and hand "laser" may have already evolved into the phaser technology as we know it, but maybe the terminology hadn't caught up in their description of the weapon. Sometime over the next 10 years, Starfleet started referring to it as a "phaser" to more accurately describe the weapon function. Same thing with "lithium" and "dilithium" crystal circuits at the beginning of TOS.
     
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  5. Mark_Nguyen

    Mark_Nguyen Commodore Commodore

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    Ah, the theory that the universal translators of the day weren't updated to what we would now understand. :)

    Mark
     
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  6. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Yeah, IIRC, they were still calling warp drive “timewarps” and don’t even get me started on “Vulcanians”! :lol:
     
  7. Henoch

    Henoch Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    They also got a lot of use out of that Meteorite Beam. :) I get the feeling that the 2254 CAGE era Enterprise was on its last legs of older, 2240's era technology still in the ship, and a major refit was in its near future. In DSC, you'll see most systems upgraded to current 2255's technology. :techman:
     
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  8. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But we never see two dissimilar beam weapon effects coming from any ship. There's no difference between Georgiou's "phase cannon" and Georgiou's "phasers". Which is all good and well - we lose nothing by assuming that the guns of Archer and the guns of Picard are one and the same, only with irrelevant drift in terminology as time passes, and that Georgiou is the in-between skipper who still struggles with them newfangled words.

    We know that lasers preceded the most modern weapons in at least some applications, as per the "A Private Little War" dialogue:

    Starfleet never used breech-loading rifles or machine guns, though, and we have no pressing reason to assume they ever used old-style hand lasers, either. What Pike's team had might have been new-style hand lasers instead, a type of tool never employed as a primary infantry weapon, and merely the third barrel in a multifunction gun that used phaser beams for fighting and laser beams only for cutting.

    So no, we can't figure out the timeline here yet, or at least we can't shoot down all lines of speculation.

    Transporters were banned from moving living tissue before ENT, too. Didn't stop our heroes from using them for exactly that when the show started. So your heroes could be transporting down in tight spots even though their field manuals suggest cargo-only use and have sufficiently vaguely worded recommendations even against emergency use on people.

    Onscreen, we haven't heard of this transporter ban. Doesn't mean it could not have existed. Perhaps for about as long as the Warp Five Speed Limit did in TNG? That is, "Yes, it may be bad in theory, but in practice we have no reason to care". With warp, not for the next thousand years. With transporters, perhaps not unless one transports daily, which didn't really happen even with Kirk's heroes?

    These are the real problems, I guess. Onscreen, we don't know when Starfleet got shields, as ENT doesn't tell us that any of the cultures that would soon become early members would have had them yet. Vulcan tractor beams, yes. Klingon shields, yes. But no Vulcan or Andorian or Tellarite shields IIRC.

    As for "ships" being able to move at a given warp speed, I think that's a bit broad. Some ships are likely to be faster than others in every era. And in neither DSC nor TOS do we hear of the hero ship being particularly fast for her era - we later learn the TOS ship established speed records all right, but those came from alien manipulation the heroes seem to be unable to reproduce.

    You could probably freely choose the speed for a 2180s vessel from anywhere between warp 2 (which is perfectly good for interstellar freighters in TOS still) and warp 10 (which Kirk's ship could do when pressed, even though Scotty thought anything beyond warp 7 was a big risk). At most, you might mind the idea from "The Cage" that "our new ships can-". That is, ships from after the 2230s-40s can reach Earth from Talos markedly faster than ships from before the 2230s-40s. Steady evolution or a sudden jump? You decide.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  9. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What's the difference between phase cannons and phasers? Probably the same as the distinction between a photonic torpedo and a photon, i.e. terminology. They look the same and act the same. Slightly different words for the same thing.

    Pike's laser is the exact same as Kirk's phaser in WNMHGB, and the Disco gun is a nice transition between those and the series phasers. Those three barrels could well be an advance on the two settings of Archer's sidearms - giving stun, kill and laser cutter modes. The TOS Type II phaser has a load more settings, including the ever useful "heat up rocks" feature.
     
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  10. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The fun thing is that Pike's laser is not the exact same as Kirk's phaser - the former produces a solid red beam that heats a glowing red spot onto the target, while the latter creates a splash in all the colors of the rainbow, in both its pistol and rifle variants.

    And Pike's pistol only ever drills holes in stuff, while Kirk's pistol (that is, the pistol from Kirk's era that looks like Pike's save for a few details, and is wielded by Kirk's opponents early on) makes stuff and people disappear. Although that could always be attributed to the three barrels thing.

    Now, the thing on pedestal that Number One's team sets up is the exact same as Kirk's phaser, in terms of effects and color shows. So possibly it is a phaser. At least it has the double bubble shape Doug Drexler's onscreen diagrams associate with shipboard phasers...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  11. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Phaser appears to be a slightly Anglicanised version of the Vulcan word for 'pistol' or perhaps 'sidearm' (phay-zhar or something similar) the full name for the two weapons is also different - phased energy rectification (weapon) vs phase-modulated energy weapon.

    Rectification suggests an ability to switch between different types of energy (ala AC to DC to AC current), which parallels the stun-heat-kill/disintegrate functions of the phaser, whereas modulation suggests a single modifiable type of energy which fits with the stun-kill only function of the phase pistol/rifle.
     
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  12. Henoch

    Henoch Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    The CAGE and TOS Enterprise had "deflector or defensive screens" throughout most of season 1. First use of the term "shields" and "screens" was in episode 1-21 (production order 22), The Return of the Archons. They became just "shields" starting in episode 2-02 (production order 33), Who Mourns for Adonais?. Was the technology in place, and the terminology just hadn't caught up until early 2267?
     
  13. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think that's a reasonable assumption.
     
  14. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They used the term "screens" in TMP as well
     
  15. Henoch

    Henoch Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    Must be newer technology, they have both Forcefield Shields and Deflector Screens. (V'ger battle summary below):
    DECKER: Recommend defensive posture, screens and shields.
    KIRK: Forcefields up. ...Deflectors now!
    CHEKOV: Forcefields and deflectors up full, Captain.
    (an energy bolt hits the Enterprise)
    SCOTT: We cannot hold full power on forcefields. Deflector power is down seventy percent!
    KIRK: Divert auxiliary systems power to deflectors.
    SULU (OC): Here it comes!
    KIRK: Engineering, ...what's happening to our forcefields?
    SCOTT: Our shields cannot handle another attack!​
     
  16. matthunter

    matthunter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, and Decker's line is "screens and shields" implying the two are distinct from each other. Possibly what would later be the difference between deflectors (i.e. navigational) and shields?
     
  17. drt

    drt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Perhaps the defensive deflectors screens shunt matter (and energy?) away from the ship, while the forcefield's are more the bubble of protection we became familiar with from TNG onwards. I suppose the two could be combined by the 24th century in some fashion, whichis why there is no longer a distinction.
     
  18. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    It sounds like "screens and shields" are "forcefields" and deflectors are different based on the dialogue below.

    Perhaps "screens" are used to filter out or reduce incoming energy while maintaining sensor operation
    and "shields" are used as hard protective energy barrier
    and "deflectors" are used to redirect/knock aside incoming energy and particles/objects.

     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  19. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Again a cornucopia episode this week, with old and new tech and all sorts of ideas. Off the top of, oh, L'Rell's surprisingly shrunken head:

    - Burnham has converted Lorca's Ready Room into a study/shrine for the Red Angels. And basically all she needs is a display screen and/or a holoprojector. What is the other stuff for? We see a vacuum/pressure/isolation chamber of sorts against one wall - does she keep dark matter rock samples in there?
    - Pike is accused to being the last of the dinosaurs who still use viewscreens for communications. Perhaps deep space skippers get such poor signal that it can't be turned into holograms one could watch without getting a migraine?
    - Burnham seems stuck on a loop "studying" the Red Things, with no hypotheses and no attempts at testing any. Sarek is off to organize a proper research effort, though - is Burnham sharing or not? She is aboard the one Fleet asset that can empirically tackle the mystery, so how is she allowed privacy of any sort on this issue?
    - Data storage very much relies on the TOS cartridges, it seems. Yay. What I found delightful was that no bit of Spock's Secrets glowed blue!
    - The crew was inoculated against spores as a precaution, but this failed to stop Mirror spores from contaminating Tilly. Dark matter is a spore magnet, and gravity is a dark matter magnet, and Stamets reuses Tilly's dark matter extractor doodad for extracting the spore ghost from within her. How come Tilly wasn't in constant pain during the "Brother" mission into the dark matter rubble pile?
    - Klingons consider building the "D-7 battle cruiser" as a joint effort between Houses. There's still leeway on whether this is an all-new design or just the old template chosen for the joint project for practical reasons. Cosmetic differences between this baby and the TOS, TAS and TMP ships just reinforce a trend...
    - Klingon gadgetry includes tablets one signs with a combination of blood and fingerprint, but the blood isn't a DNA sample as any random mongrel's will do.
    - Klingon nanotech hidden in cosmetic products can spy on discussions and transmit its findings from House to House at the very least. It's delightful to see this stuff wielded by one of the old codgers rather than the whippersnappers. Perhaps this guy was alive and at it back in "Broken Bow" already, when we first learned of Klingons being nanowizards?
    - There's also a weapon that paralyzes by hitting the victim with white lightning that sticks and slowly kills - but can be retracted at the push of a button, too, leaving no ill effects. Related to stun phasers or not?
    - Compact flying gun drones operating a bit above head level seem like a well thought out anti-personnel weapon. Does Emp... I mean Capt. P. Georgiou, Ret. control those, or are they fully autonomous?
    - Out of her batbelt also comes a soap bubble that imprisons victims in midair, "Encounter at Farpoint" Groppler Zorn style. Looks intriguingly alien - is S31 tech typically that sort, esoteric IP theft from superior cultures or clever primitives?
    - Emp... Security Consultant Georgiou rides on a compact ship with chameleon surfaces and folding nacelles. The ship is seen emerging from the camouflaged state and unfolding her nacelles when entering orbit of Boreth. She subsequently warps away from orbit. Was the camo vital for sneaking to orbit of a Klingon planet? Was the tucking in of the nacelles? Were these measures sufficient for slipping this ship to orbit of Qo'noS, too, or did Georgiou reach that "harder target" by other means?
    - The ship certainly fits the bill. The long nacelles yell "Speed!" but the folding mutters "Compromise...", establishing the spies as a bit short of omnipotent. The Section has exceptional resources and a few cool doodads such as the drones and the personal holo-mask, but still needs a ship with nice physical "insertion/extraction" features built in, including at least a shuttlebay that takes up most of the interior, and a transporter placed smack in the middle of the bridge thing.

    Looking forward to more of this stuff, although perhaps in moderation. Time for another Red Thing romp next, and Spock stuff and all.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  20. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Captain Captain

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    How about just calling her "Mirror Georgiou" for the sake of clarity, brevity, & accuracy!
     
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