Count me as a person that agrees with your assessment, Relayer! I am surprised when some people express hate for one of the series or characters! And even more disappointed when they express their dislike in a very "Un-Trek-philosophy-like" way.....
DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER
- Thread starter Tidus79001
- Start date
Count me as a person that agrees with your assessment, Relayer! I am surprised when some people express hate for one of the series or characters! And even more disappointed when they express their dislike in a very "Un-Trek-philosophy-like" way.....
While I tend to agree with this assessment I think that any such sweeping generalization is doomed to fall apart under scrutiny. That said, if there was ever anything even close to a consensus about the different entities of Trek, this would probably be it.I would like to go on record as being surprised.
As a long term fan of Trek who is reasonably new to this site I expected to find that most people thought the same way :
Trek generally is great.
TOS was wonderful but of its time.
The TOS movies were pretty good except for 5.
TNG became great around Best of Both Worlds.
The Next Gen films aren't that good.
DS9 was proper grown up Trek that recovered from a questionable start to become the peak of the franchise.
Voyager was a mistake that improved slightly - intermittently enjoyable but with huge flaws.
Enterprise got quite good towards the end.
All of the above are self evident (to me) and any reasonable fan would naturally agree.
How wrong can you be...
Ah, cause and effect...
YES!
TOS is wonderful, no apologies needed. I find it just as good now as decades ago. Great scripts, great acting, and never dull.
"I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes."
"It's all I have."
V is a campy DELIGHT.
That certainly ramped up the drama, though TNG is my least favorite series.
Except for First Contact which was wonderful.
DS9 was a great opera of politics and religion as well as great Trek that gave us fully fleshed out worlds and races we had only seen briefly before. Cardassia, Ferenginar, Bajor, Trill.. quite a contribution to Trekdom.
Dude. Voyager was a GODDESS. The most humourous Trek series with some stand out actors. Always great fun.
Yep, seasons 3 and 4 contain in my super humble opinion some of the best of Trek. After watching the whole thing seasons 1 and 2 are actually better as you know what's coming up for the crew.
I honestly think a lot of people just aren't into Trek enough to hack more than one or two series. IRL I know many people who count themselves Trek fans but in fact they are only into TNG. They watched it at a time in their life they were primed to get into a series and that time has now passed.. unlike myself they don't spend their whole life getting into sci fi series. They interpret this as "the other series are boring or a soap opera or.. " but really they were never going to actually consume any series with the same enthusiasm as whichever one was their first.
Few and far between IMO.
Picardo was superb, and the EMH character really shone as one of the show's beacons of light.
I'd also say that Jeri Ryan was far better than she's often given credit for.
Other than that though, varying degrees of woeful.
Well I think Picardo and Ryan were fabulous and worked very well together. Both far more colorful than Tom, Harry or B'Elanna (who could be a bit one note). It's easy to see why so many later eps were dominated by 7 and the Doctor stories, they were a delight. I also am (obviously) a huge Mulgrew fan.
I think a lot of Trek suffers from poor acting. It just doesn't bother me that much. I'm not a fan of much of Avery Brooks's acting and it confused me why he was so interesting as Benny Russell when I often found him a bit stiff as Sisko. However not caring greatly for the acting of Brooks somehow doesn't make me like Sisko any less. I'm not a fan of Jolene Blalock's acting either but I am a fan of the character of T'Pol.
That said if everyone could rise to the level of Louise Fletcher or Jeffery Combs it would be amazing. Two of the best Trek actors ever.
I think a lot of Trek suffers from poor acting. It just doesn't bother me that much. I'm not a fan of much of Avery Brooks's acting and it confused me why he was so interesting as Benny Russell when I often found him a bit stiff as Sisko. However not caring greatly for the acting of Brooks somehow doesn't make me like Sisko any less. I'm not a fan of Jolene Blalock's acting either but I am a fan of the character of T'Pol.
That said if everyone could rise to the level of Louise Fletcher or Jeffery Combs it would be amazing. Two of the best Trek actors ever.
I'm hoping to see Combs in June at the Oz Comic Con, going to get a Weyoun pic signed. I loved Shran too but he was never as developed as Weyoun. Combs said of Weyoun:
"I began to see how sort of royal and regal he was, and there was something kind of Japanese, but also he was the courtier in the court, he was the foppish, coiffed, graceful diplomat who would go from one party to another and make them all run smoothly. And he would do anything he could, with a smile, to make it look as easy as possible, and get exactly what he wanted. So I took a little spice from the French court as well."
And you know you can see ALL of that in his performance.
"I began to see how sort of royal and regal he was, and there was something kind of Japanese, but also he was the courtier in the court, he was the foppish, coiffed, graceful diplomat who would go from one party to another and make them all run smoothly. And he would do anything he could, with a smile, to make it look as easy as possible, and get exactly what he wanted. So I took a little spice from the French court as well."
And you know you can see ALL of that in his performance.
This is ANOTHER surprise for me - really ! I thought most Trek fans would have watched the whole franchise, good, bad or indifferent.
I have, it's all Trek...
The funniest thing about this is that ... saying it's just sat on a space station. They didn't need the Defiant to set a story in space, as could have been countless number of alien ships or stories set on alien worlds.
And with the argument about no ship early on - it was Berman who stated "just seemed ridiculous to have two shows—two casts of characters—that were off going where no man has gone before"
And with the argument about no ship early on - it was Berman who stated "just seemed ridiculous to have two shows—two casts of characters—that were off going where no man has gone before"
Jeffrey Combs was awesome as Weyoun. Across the whole of Science Fiction TV, though, he has some pretty stiff competition.
Wayne Pygram as Scorpius
Ed Wasser as Morden
Michael Emerson as Ben Linus
And more, I'm sure.
This is ANOTHER surprise for me - really ! I thought most Trek fans would have watched the whole franchise, good, bad or indifferent.
I have, it's all Trek...
I have to take issue with the suggestion that those who don't care for any or even all of the other series as much don't do as good of a job of being Trek fans as others. It's a matter of taste, pure and simple, and as long as those of us who have series we don't like aren't going to other parts of the board and flamebaiting because of it, then I don't see anything wrong with it.
Uh, not to put too fine a point on it, but aren't these contradictory statements?
Just don't. That way lies madness.
DS9 isn't the worst series. That title goes to ENT. With Berman and Braga's reinventing and interjection their ideas of the Star Trek canon, and then putting it all back they way they found it in season 4 because the show was set up for cancellation.
Honestly though, DS9 did alot of great things, but at the same time they took Trek to alot of places it really didn't need to go. Things that irked me were the entire Maquis plot and Eddington and other Maquis leaders not acknowledging the consequences of their actions reflect on the Federation.I really wanted Sisko go slam Eddington in his place, with a Picard style retort to everything the Maquis was preaching but that never happened. That Borg comment Eddington made about the Federation was just low and untrue of the circumstances.
Everything that had to do with Section 31 was petty and shallow and completely against Roddenberry's vision of the future. Now i'm not against an organization like Section 31 existing but i do think their execution and motives were handled poorly by the creative team of the show. Also wanted Sisko to rebuff Odo when Odo claims that with Starfleet claims to abhor what Section 31 does, no one tries to bring them to justice for poisoning the Founders.
The whole genocide of entire species thing was a major turnoff as well. Starfleet ordering the Founders be executed enmass with a virus and using Odo as the carrier was just disgusting. Also the Dominion completely decimating Cardassia in the ep "What you leave behind" with something like 800 million people dying in one episode was ugly.
Making the Klingons the antagonist of season 4 and temporarily destroying everything Star Trek TUC did was a shallow attempt to keep interest in the show while the creative team thought up some way to execute their Dominion War. Just dump on the TOS crews greatest accomplishments why don't you.
Lastly the Bajoran wormhole Prophets and the Pah Wraiths were heavy and divisive anchors to the show. The religious extremism and preachyness of the Bajorans got old in the first season. The woman who publicly hangs herself on DS9 was also not a favorite scene of mine.
DS9 is a great show because of these things added together yes, but without that Dominion War it's just a show about preachy religious aliens, and star fleet officers stuck at the edge of space on a space station that functions more like a mall.
Honestly though, DS9 did alot of great things, but at the same time they took Trek to alot of places it really didn't need to go. Things that irked me were the entire Maquis plot and Eddington and other Maquis leaders not acknowledging the consequences of their actions reflect on the Federation.I really wanted Sisko go slam Eddington in his place, with a Picard style retort to everything the Maquis was preaching but that never happened. That Borg comment Eddington made about the Federation was just low and untrue of the circumstances.
Everything that had to do with Section 31 was petty and shallow and completely against Roddenberry's vision of the future. Now i'm not against an organization like Section 31 existing but i do think their execution and motives were handled poorly by the creative team of the show. Also wanted Sisko to rebuff Odo when Odo claims that with Starfleet claims to abhor what Section 31 does, no one tries to bring them to justice for poisoning the Founders.
The whole genocide of entire species thing was a major turnoff as well. Starfleet ordering the Founders be executed enmass with a virus and using Odo as the carrier was just disgusting. Also the Dominion completely decimating Cardassia in the ep "What you leave behind" with something like 800 million people dying in one episode was ugly.
Making the Klingons the antagonist of season 4 and temporarily destroying everything Star Trek TUC did was a shallow attempt to keep interest in the show while the creative team thought up some way to execute their Dominion War. Just dump on the TOS crews greatest accomplishments why don't you.
Lastly the Bajoran wormhole Prophets and the Pah Wraiths were heavy and divisive anchors to the show. The religious extremism and preachyness of the Bajorans got old in the first season. The woman who publicly hangs herself on DS9 was also not a favorite scene of mine.
DS9 is a great show because of these things added together yes, but without that Dominion War it's just a show about preachy religious aliens, and star fleet officers stuck at the edge of space on a space station that functions more like a mall.
