DS9 - Where are the Vulcans?

[DS9Continuing]

Ro_Laren said:
They probably didn't have many Vulcans because the makeup department already had their hands full making all of the exotic aliens on DS9.

Vulcans are one of the simplest makeups they ever did - after all it was designed in the 1960s. If they wanted Vulcans, they could have had Vulcans. It's silly to blame it on the makeup department - they just do what the writers tell them.

Pegaritaville said:
It seems like all of the modern Trek series had a tough time getting Vulcans right. They usually came off arrogant, naive or really anal (or all of the above). I'm kind of glad DS9 didn't use them that often.

Another incorrect and unrealistically idealistic reading of the original material. You people need to accept that Vulcans are not all clones - they are individuals who have individual personalities. And even if the portrayal in the "modern era" is not the same as that in TOS (which I don't accept regardless), then 20 years of "modern era" Vulcans outweighs 3 years of "original" Vulcans (of whom we saw approximately FIVE).

Romulans aren't portrayed the same as in TOS. Klingons aren't portrayed the same as in TOS. Hell, humans aren't portrayed the same as in TOS. Why does nobody ever complain about those?

 

[Sci]

If you're going to ask where all the Vulcans are, you might as well ask where the Andorians are, or where the Tellarites are, or where the Rigelians are, or where the Coridanites are, or where the Betazoids are, or where the Risians are, or where the Denobulans are, or where the Benzites are, or where the Bolians are.

Space is big, and the Federation is big. You're not going to get an even distribution of all Federation species in all areas of the galaxy, especially on an outpost outside of Federation space. Heck, it's only because of Trek's dramatic conceit of depicting Humanity's future that we see so many Humans!

 

[Tactical Drone]

lvsxy808 said:
Romulans aren't portrayed the same as in TOS. Klingons aren't portrayed the same as in TOS. Hell, humans aren't portrayed the same as in TOS. Why does nobody ever complain about those?

Probably because this thread is about Vulcans and not Romulans, Klingons, and Humans.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Yes, but my point (for those of you who missed it) is that the same complaint comes up time and time again about Vulcans, but never about any of the other races.

 

[Nebusj]

lvsxy808 said:
[Another incorrect and unrealistically idealistic reading of the original material. You people need to accept that Vulcans are not all clones - they are individuals who have individual personalities.

And that's why in the Modern Trek era they're all arrogant jerkfaces with Moe Howard haircuts. For the diversity of it all.

Romulans aren't portrayed the same as in TOS. Klingons aren't portrayed the same as in TOS. Hell, humans aren't portrayed the same as in TOS. Why does nobody ever complain about those?

In point of fact, the differences between original series portrayals and Modern Trek portrayals of them all are often grumbled about, particularly in the way the Klingons lost about 8 INT and the ability to shower, and turned most of their dialogue into hitting their chests and shouting, ``WE ARE KLINGONS!''

 

[Hofner]

InklingStar said:
Stonn gives Sakonna a run for her money in the moron department. T'Pring was pretty conniving. Vulcans run a gamut of their own, we just got used to the ultra-stoics like Spock and Tuvok.

Maybe Sakonna is T'Pring and Stonn's daughter and she inherited her Daddy's intelligence genes or lack therefore of. She also inherited her mother's conniving ways, the combination of which proved fatal for poor Sakonna. She probably thinks she tricked Quark into convincing her to give up her Maquis secrets.

Robert

Edit: By the way Sakonna may seem young to be the offspring of TOS era Vulcans but it took a LONG time for them to conceive; Stonn has a lot of trouble counting as high as seven.

 

[ad_nauseam]

Point taken about the many federation species that don't play a major role in DS9. Most of them, though, I would consider as pretty minor and I don't feel their absence. The Vulcans do seem to be absent though. I'm not concerned with the number of times a Vulcan appears in the crowd, or a handful of one-shot characters, or honestly even the lack of a major character who happens to be Vulcan. They're missing from the political side of the series, the Dominion War. As I finish season 6, I haven't seen anything that would distinguish Vulcan from the Federation at all, and I'm wondering if there is a canon reason for it. I'm guessing that their fleet has been totally integrated with the Federation at this point, but I don't know that for sure. I'm also guessing that politically Vulcan and the Federation are so in sync that there is no real division anymore, but thats just a guess. DS9 shows the Dominion War directly affecting Klingons, Romulans, the Federation, Cardassians, and others. Betazed I'd say is accounted for; it was occupied, giving the Dominion a position where it threatened Vulcan and a few other systems, and yet no Vulcan response. Any insights or opinions are welcome!

 

[Ro_Laren]

lvsxy808 said:

Ro_Laren said:
They probably didn't have many Vulcans because the makeup department already had their hands full making all of the exotic aliens on DS9.

Vulcans are one of the simplest makeups they ever did - after all it was designed in the 1960s. If they wanted Vulcans, they could have had Vulcans. It's silly to blame it on the makeup department - they just do what the writers tell them.

I am sure the writers didn't dictate all of the aliens for the background. "I would like two Pakleds, seven Bajorans, three Ferengi waiters, one Klingon, two Trill, one Nausican, etc."

There were Vulcans on the station, but we rarely saw them wearing Starfleet uniforms. I was just guessing that is because the makeup department wasn't focusing on the makeup of all of the superfluous Starfleet extras, but on the exotic aliens on the station. Let's face it, one less alien to paint is one less alien.

And again, this is just a theory. Who knows what the real reason is???

 

[Sci]

ad_nauseam said:
I'm not concerned with the number of times a Vulcan appears in the crowd, or a handful of one-shot characters, or honestly even the lack of a major character who happens to be Vulcan. They're missing from the political side of the series, the Dominion War. As I finish season 6, I haven't seen anything that would distinguish Vulcan from the Federation at all, and I'm wondering if there is a canon reason for it.

Well, Vulcan was one of the founding Federation Member States, according to "Zero Hour" (ENT). And while Vulcan apparently remains a powerful political force within the Federation (especially when the Federation was on the verge of civil war over the admission of Coridan in "Journey to Babel" [TOS]), the Federation is, let us recall, exactly what its name implies: An interstellar federal state, not an alliance. Ergo, there wouldn't be a political distinction between Vulcan and the Federation from the POV of foreign politics, just like there wouldn't be one between the Federation and Earth. The Federation represents Earth and Vulcan and Andor and Tellar and Betazed and Benzar and Bolarus and Ardana and Bre'el and Coridan and Delta and Efros and Grazer and Rigel and Risa and Trill and Tiburon and Ullia and Zakdorn... etc.

Asking for a distinction between the Federation and Vulcan in foreign politics is like asking for a distinction between the United States and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, or between the United Kingdom and Scotland, or between the Federal Republic of Germany and Bavaria.

I'm guessing that their fleet has been totally integrated with the Federation at this point, but I don't know that for sure.

For whatever it might be worth, the novels tend to imply that Federation Member States retain their domestic security forces, but that they're limited to the territory of their Member State, and the Federation Starfleet handles Federation-wide and extra-Federation issues; I imagine that the relationship is akin to that between the state militias and national guards and the Federal armed forces in the US.

I'm also guessing that politically Vulcan and the Federation are so in sync that there is no real division anymore,

Bingo.

DS9 shows the Dominion War directly affecting Klingons, Romulans, the Federation, Cardassians, and others. Betazed I'd say is accounted for; it was occupied, giving the Dominion a position where it threatened Vulcan and a few other systems, and yet no Vulcan response.

Again, it's a false distinction you're drawing between a "Vulcan" response and a "Federation" response. Vulcan is a part of the Federation, and the Federation response is the same as the Vulcan response. Wondering why there was no Vulcan response to the Dominion threatening Vulcan is like wondering why there was no New York response to 9/11.

 

[Bill Morris]

In DS9: Field of Fire Ezri compiled a list of 48 Vulcan Starfleet officers as possible suspects among all those on DS9 at the time of Ilario's murder.

 

[Jono]

Mysterion said:

rofeta said:
I do have a link, I have to say I have read this fan fiction but it sounds interesting.
True North

Thanks!

If you are interested in reading more about that series follow the link in my sig to the ST Expanded universe wiki and then do a search for "Star Trek: Pendragon". This is just info and stuff, not more stories since as I said before the author hasn't made more available yet (though he has apparently written a fair number of stories for that series).

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Earth provides most of the cannon fodder for Starfleet, since humans are suckers. The rest of the Federation members just coast along under the protection of Earth morons who are always getting blowed up real good.

Vulcans are smart. That's why you don't see too many of them on the front lines in Starfleet.

 

[DanTheGrey]

Or all the Vulcans are busy serving in Starfleet Intelligence posing as Romulans

 

[Hofner]

Menacing Horta said:
Earth provides most of the cannon fodder for Starfleet, since humans are suckers. The rest of the Federation members just coast along under the protection of Earth morons who are always getting blowed up real good.

Vulcans are smart. That's why you don't see too many of them on the front lines in Starfleet.

That's why the alien races in the Federation voted to make Earth the 'capital'. They knew enemies would always target it for destruction.

Robert

 

[Lindley]

rofeta said:
If I remember correctly (probably don't) the Vulcan's leaving would have been spurred on by the Leyton coup, which succeeded instead of failing as it did. Vulcans and I guess other members leave in protest and then we have a Federation civil war.

Heh, the DS9/B5 debate would have had a field day with that one.

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

Captain Solok, two-time recipient of the Christopher Pike Medal of Valor, would say he had a presence on the front lines and on the sidelines. His ship had an ethnically diverse, all Vulcan crew.

It was when another Vulcan crew, needing emergency medical attention, was turned away from a Romulan facility on a Bajoran moon that it was discovered that the facility was a front for storing weapons. Vulcans are everywhere, if only by inference.

 

[mattman8907]

why no vulcan ships though. mostly just starfleet, klingon, and romulan ships.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

In Season 4, they had originally intended for the Vulcans to leave the Federation with Founder infiltrators as the possible instigators behind this.

But then came the decision to introduce Michael Dorn into the show in an effort to boost rating and this plotline was reworked into the Klingon Empire ending its alliance with the Federation.

Elements of this planned storyline were also re-used for "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost" (anti-Founder paranoia leading to an intra-Federation conflict).

So, if Michael Dorn had never joined DS9's main cast we would have seen a lot more Vulcans on the show for sure.

 

[Nerys Myk]

why no vulcan ships though. mostly just starfleet, klingon, and romulan ships.

The Vulcans are part of the Federation, of which Starfleet is the exploration/military arm. Any Vulcan ship would be a Federation ship.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Vulcans are out being logical. You know, plotting terrorist attacks when even Quark can spot it's not the most effective way to get their territory back, murdering people who look happy, learning to play baseball just so they could prove they are better than humans.

You know, logical stuff.