DS9 vs TNG Popularity

[PorthosShadow]

DS9 & TNG have been off the year for a decade now so I suppose the ratings don't really matter but that doesn't mean I and other fans still don't have questions. I've always read that TNG had superior ratings compared to DS9 even though I believe DS9 was a superior show. Now don't get me wrong I enjoyed TNG but never as much as DS9.

I guess my question is why was TNG seemingly poor popular (ratings wise) than DS9 even though it wasn't nearly as complex as DS9. Was it that TNG was a safe show that the whole family could watch and you has a parent didn't have to worry about it's content as opposed to DS9 which dealt with some complex themes that weren't nessessarly that easy to follow.

Now, I'm not trying to suggest that the DS9 audience (smaller compared to TNG's) is the smarter more cultivated audience as opposed to TNG "safe zone" audience but it does seem as though DS9 wasn't a show that invited just anyone to go along. It was a show that was dependent upon viewers who were going to pay attention because what you learn now might come up later.

TNG was obviously less concerned with continuity (not to the extent Voyager was) and I don't believe this was a major weakness of TNG. Sometimes it's nice to follow a show where you don't have to think all that much. So it comes down to this, did TNG create the aforementioned "safe zone" where anyone could watch and not feel threatned and DS9 never reach TNG's popularity because it attracted a slightly brighter audience that were willing to stay with the show no matter what.

 

[Baconnaise]

I don't quite know what yo mean about DS9 being a parent worry. Children see explosions death and much more in cartoons. When I was younger tom and jerry herculoids voltron transformers gi joe and he man were pretty much my thing among other shows. I think the only thing that these cartoons didn't have were the sexual situations or relationships that were sexual in nature. I don't kid myself though (get it?) I knew girls had different parts than boys and the big thing was kissing a girl on the playground as it was scandalous in kindergarten or first grade.

Anyhoo I think the reason TNG is so fondly remembered is almost entirely based on it being a tos reboot (at least initially) and it was out the door first.

It's not a better show than DS9 that's for sure but the early bird gets the worm.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I'm sure the fact that DS9 was highly serialized played a large part in it. A casual viewer would simply be lost if they picked up an episode from the later seasons. TNG, on the other hand, was a show where you could literally jump into any episode, with a few exceptions, and not miss a thing. Some people don't like serialization, although I can't understand why.

 

[toughlittleship]

Its also worth pointing out that TNG had pretty much no competition. DS9 had TNG itself, B5, Xena, Hercules, Lois and Clark. IMHO DS9 was better than all of those, even Babylon 5.

 

[Baconnaise]

Aye there are plenty of examples in other areas. World of Warcraft for MMO's or the Sony Walkman. First mainstream product or the like doesn't have to be the best of the best to be the most popular.

 

[Kegg]

DS9 appealed more to a cult audience, while TNG had mainstream appeal in addition to a cult one. That the show became more serialized and, unlike TNG, was never at any point the only Trek product on air (implicitly second fiddle to TNG and VOY) didn't help.

 

[indolover]

I like both shows equally, and both had some of the best ever Trek episodes (the best of both worlds, yesterday's enterprise, chain of command, the drumhead, the way of the warrior, the visitor, Q Who, To the Death, Far Beyond the Stars, In the Pale Moonlight, etc.)

But TNG IMO was more popular since it had less competition and it was better marketed. This is why TNG is far more ingrained into pop culture than DS9 ever has been. Sir Patrick Stewart is one of the world's most famous actors, is Avery Brooks (even though both actor played their respective character well)? He became a world star because of TNG after all.

Saying that serialisation cost DS9 popularity doesn't seem reasoned to me. 24 is a big show and is highly serialised.

 

[Sykonee]

I'd say it was a combination of three factors:

1. Resurgent interest in Trek. STIV had been a huge hit for the franchise, drawing in folks who barely knew of the show in passing. TNG managed to piggy-back off that momentum when premiered a year later. Once DS9 was in full swing, a bit of a backlash against Trek over saturation had set in.

2. Lack of competition. Sci-fi on TV was a rare thing back in the mid-80s, especially so in the pre-cable boom. That the show was syndicated undoubtedly helped it gain wider exposure without getting lost in the hinterlands of start-up networks. As mentioned above, DS9 had quite a bit of competition in the 90s.

3. Pop culture penetration. Picard, Worf, Data, "Make it so", "Resistance is futile", etc. DS9 had none of that.

 

[TheGodBen]

TNG also had more iconic characters. There was the bald, English captain, the android, the blind man, the Klingon, that empath woman, and THE BOY! DS9 had more everyman characters, there was the shapeshifter and woman with a worm in her belly, but the rest of them didn't stand out as much to casual viewers. Picard's a great character and I love him so I mean him no disrespect by saying this, but he was much easier to sum up than Sisko.

 

[DS9forever]

TNG also had more iconic characters. There was the bald, English captain, the android, the blind man, the Klingon, that empath woman, and THE BOY! DS9 had more everyman characters, there was the shapeshifter and woman with a worm in her belly, but the rest of them didn't stand out as much to casual viewers. Picard's a great character and I love him so I mean him no disrespect by saying this, but he was much easier to sum up than Sisko.

I would dispute that LaForge and Troi were iconic characters though. LaForge seems to be remembered for being a blind navigator and a geek in terms of his relationship with woman and Troi for her "I sense great hostility and paaaaaiiinnnn" speeches.

 

[DevilEyes]

I would say that only Picard, Data and Worf were "iconic".

 

[Nightdiamond]

One advantage DS9 had is that it avoids looking too outdated, more than TNG.

TNG's earlier episodes, with it's dialog and plots, seem more simple, while DS9 was able to tackle more intense subjects.

I remember the skirts that both men and women wore in the first few episodes of TNG, how an android was really a big deal, and time travel was very intriguing.

I think DS9 was a little more willing to go out there in dialog and plots, like "In a Pale Monlight" for example.

 

[TheGodBen]

I would say that only Picard, Data and Worf were "iconic".

Iconic was probably the wrong word, but I don't want to say they were gimmicks either because that sounds derogatory. They just had more easily recognisable sci-fi traits than the likes of O'Brien, Bashir, Kira and so on. For a casual audience, and TNG had a very large casual audience, things like visors and telepathy were easier to latch onto than an Irish mechanic with a wife and child.

 

[Trek Survivor]

The entire first post is biased in favour of DS9. I love the show - my favourite, in fact, if I discount season six and seven - but its not as "complicated" or "complex" as many would like to believe.

 

[Joeman]

One advantage DS9 had is that it avoids looking too outdated, more than TNG.

TNG's earlier episodes, with it's dialog and plots, seem more simple, while DS9 was able to tackle more intense subjects.

What about those early eps with that cheesy synthesizer music in the soundtrack? OUCH!

Speaking for myself, I watched TNG from beginning to end as it aired. I rejected DS9 completely when it came out (love it now). I know I'm not the only one. After TOS and TNG, what they were throwing at me with DS9 did not seem appealing. Apparently it was ahead of it's time, and/or way smarter than I was at the time.

 

[Nightdiamond]

What about those early eps with that cheesy synthesizer music in the soundtrack? OUCH!

Speaking for myself, I watched TNG from beginning to end as it aired. I rejected DS9 completely when it came out (love it now). I know I'm not the only one. After TOS and TNG, what they were throwing at me with DS9 did not seem appealing. Apparently it was ahead of it's time, and/or way smarter than I was at the time.

Man, that was so 80's, !

I had same reaction. I was so used to TNG that I had trouble getting used DS9 because it didn't revolve around a starship.

I watched it in bits and pieces until it really caught on, especially when the Dominion conflict started.


I liked how they handled casual things, like the "commercial" Quark wanted to do-it made a little fun of humanity's past, but it was still something the "average" viewer could relate to too.

I found some of TNG's view of the future really sterile. The only music everyone seemed to listen to was either classical music or jazz.

Everyone drank some type of tea or synthehol.

Everything was...safe..



.

 

[PorthosShadow]

The entire first post is biased in favour of DS9. I love the show - my favourite, in fact, if I discount season six and seven - but its not as "complicated" or "complex" as many would like to believe.

I don't deny being a bigger fan of DS9 than TNG. However, I don't hate TNG and rather enjoy it when its on but I just feel like the DS9 is far superior in story telling and character development and I know a lot of other people agree with me on that. Thats why I asked the question of how could a seemingly better show be not as well liked and something that is the latter.

 

[DevilEyes]

The only music everyone seemed to listen to was either classical music or jazz.
.

To be fair, DS9 wasn't different in that regard, was it? Vic Fontaine was not exactly a rock'n'roller.

 

[Nightdiamond]

The only music everyone seemed to listen to was either classical music or jazz.
.

To be fair, DS9 wasn't different in that regard, was it? Vic Fontaine was not exactly a rock'n'roller.

That's something I always wondered, and that was why music seemed to be limited to just classical or jazz style music.

In just about every Trek series, it's as if those types of music, are the only ones that survived into the future...

 

[Anwar]

It's because they didn't want to date the show by having them listen to more contemporary stuff. They figured that by using things we already considered classics, it would seem less dated than having them listen to Queen or something.

Somewhat backfired, because it made the audience think they were snobs.

I never really liked "Pale Moonlight" all that much, myself.