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DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Flashback was okay. I enjoyed the Excelsior stuff too but I wonder whether the writer had actually seen TUC. In the show, Tuvok only had two months of starship experience, whereas in TUC Excelsior had just returned from a three year mission to the Beta Quadrant. In the film, two months have passed between Praxis exploding and Gowron being murdered, compared to two days in Flashback. And of course, Valtane is still alive at the end of the film.

Aside from the most nitpicky of nitpicks, it was okay. I think they made the mistake of focussing on the plot a bit too much, as that was very thin. The nostalgia stuff was very good.

I'm nitpicking too but its Gorkon not Gowron in TUC. :evil:
 
Week 4: (Ending 09.29.96)
VOY - The Swarm (Airdate 09.25.96)

About the only thing that was enjoyable in this episode was Picardo times two. And more Kes. Well, any Kes is good in my books but it seems the show writers have mostly forgotten that since way back in Cold Fire. I digress (but I always will, for Kes!).

What I don't get is, after two years of being such an upstanding model of Federation Principles, why the hell does Janeway all of a sudden decide now is a good time to break the rules? You say it's to save about a dozen months of travel, yet there were opportunities before to save the whole bloody trip before that you didn't act upon. The whole Swarm plot feels like nothing more than excuse to get the ship into a generic technobabble space-fight, character assassination be damned. Why am I even bothering to go into the details of the B-plot anyway? Oh, right, it's because it's the title of the actual episode. Might have been a better idea to have renamed it Memory Loss -that'd work for both plots!

VOY built up a bit of good will in the early goings of its season but it's starting to get shaky again. Not a good sign for the show as both DS9 and B5 are set to return next week. Woo woo!

Weekly Winner
VOY

Next:
DS9 - Apocalypse Rising
VOY - False Profits
B5 - Walkabout
 
I like The Swarm. Firstly, pretty much any Doctor stuff is gold, and I like the idea of the Swarm itself. Interferometric beam and all.
 
you will always manage to find the fly in the ointment of voyager, while ds9 and b5 can do no wrong. no matter that the last ds9 episode 'broken link' was outrageous nonsense, odo turned into a human by the great link. how exactly did they do this? odo was never able to simulate a human perfectly, his dna did not change, he had no taste buds, no digestive system etc. no indication that other shapeshifters were better at it, except for faces. what brings me to the question, why couldn't shapeshifters simply be identified by tricorder readings, or x-rays?
i like the twist that not only odo had his punishment delivered on this occasion, but he also had a souvenir for them, section 31's plague.
thanks to a guy who started to present b5 on youtube i can revisit this show as well, and what struck me is how noisy it is. dreadful soundeffects which are probably supposed to produce suspense or whatever when none is needed. something almost all shows which are not star trek have in common, whether b5, farscape, andromeda.
 
odo was never able to simulate a human perfectly, his dna did not change, he had no taste buds, no digestive system etc. no indication that other shapeshifters were better at it, except for faces.

Paradise Lost, Homefront and the Adversary all showed that other shapeshifters were miles better than Odo at being a human.

Kai Winn;3824861 what brings me to the question said:
Because when they shapeshifted into whatever object be it human, rock, fish the tricorder read them as human, rock or fish. Odo says this in the Way of the Warrior (I think?)
 
I'm nitpicking too but its Gorkon not Gowron in TUC. :evil:

Eek! Typo! I'm so ashamed. :lol:

The Chute is a good-ish episode that has Harry as a focus. Now how many times does that happen throughout the show's run? About once more? Harry and Tm have the most interesting part of the episode, dealing with living in such confined quarters with other prisoners, as well as having everyone going slightly mental. It's dark, and explores Harry in a way not done before. The rescue B-plot, however, was very dull.

The Swarm is only good for the Doctor and Kes scenes. It's about time the EMH had some problems; what's more annoying though is that the ramifications of what happens are not explored at all after this episode. Seeing Kes defend the Doctor to his counterpart is nice though, and does wonders for her character. Again, the B-plot (or is it the main plot?) is very weak. Janeway decides to break some rules, which she wasn't able to do back in Alliances last season. Cue technobabble and pretty CGI to the end.

VOY will lose next week. :D
 
Why am I even bothering to go into the details of the B-plot anyway? Oh, right, it's because it's the title of the actual episode.

Ah, naming the episode after its stupid B-plot, a mistake Babylon 5 is going to make in a couple of weeks!

Based on what I'd heard about The Swarm, it sounded pretty exciting, but alas, it wasn't. The Doctor-Kes stuff isn't bad, but the stuff about the little alien spaceships is really generic.
 
Week 5: (Ending 10.06.96)
DS9 - Apocalypse Rising (Airdate 09.30.96)
VOY - False Profits (Airdate 10.02.96)
B5 - Walkabout (Airdate 10.03.96)

Well, it ain't no The Way Of The Warrior. Though really, was there much hope of toping that one for a season premiere? Not very likely. That said, it isn't even The Search, or even The Homecoming. And I'm not just talking about the lack of a "the" in the title either ("The Apocalypse Rising"???). Sure, it's fun to see Sisko's posse dress up as Klingons, and getting a few more scene stealing moments with Dukat and Gowron is always welcome. As a plot, however, this episode just seems perfunctory. Even Odo's depression sub-plot is apparently tidily wrapped up here. Sure, the stakes of their mission were high but it never felt they were in that much jeopardy. An infiltration episode just ain't as thrilling as the smash-bang action-thrillers the previous two season premieres gave.

Still, it's the better of the three episodes on offer here, if anything because the stakes are higher compared to the other two (expose the Changeling! ...or else!).

Walkabout does a good job in keeping its main arc moving (Hey hey! The telepath trick actually works!!) but that plot is relegated to the b-story, with an amiable "what's Franklin up to now" a-story taking up the rest. There really aren't any major surprises here but at least it's entertaining. Plus, what a lovely shot that was, having Sheridan and the new Vorlon ship come face to face in space!

VOY didn't even try this week. It's like it saw the other two shows coming back, and threw this toss-off Ferengi episode to tide things over. Blegh...

So DS9 gets the victory with its season premiere. I wouldn't go so far as to say it was an easy victory but there really wasn't much competition this week.

Weekly Winner
DS9

Next:
DS9 - The Ship
VOY - Remember
B5 - Grey 17 Is Missing
 
Can't comment on B5 as I don't remember the episode that well though early in season 4 is when I gave up on it so I doubt I thought much of it.

Apocalypse Rising is decent but probably the weakest season opener DS9 ever had. Sisko made a great Klingon but otherwise the story never really worked for me - surely they missed a trick in not having Dax as a Klingon, she would have livened things up a bit.

Voyager - well, it's just a horrible mess of an episode that manages to make the crew look like idiots.

At least next week looks a lot better.
 
Season 5! This ought to be fun, since I don't think DS9 ever bettered this season.

One thing that shocks (shocks!) me is how few people seem to share my enthusiasm for Apocalypse Rising. For me, this was the sort of thing I'd been waiting for ever since The Way of the Warrior set up false hopes that this Klingon stuff might actually be worthwhile. I enjoyed seeing the characters pretending to be Klingons, enjoyed Dukat helping them, enjoyed Robert O'Reilly's hilariously intense performance, seriously, what's not to like? This is one of my favourite DS9 season openers.

Walkabout is a step down from the level B5 had been on for the last few episodes, but I still quite like it, especially seeing the scary new Vorlon.

DS9 wins.
 
I remember seeing DS9 for the first time and thinking Apocalypse Rising was exceptionally good. If not quite up there with The Way of the Warrior, it's not far off either.
 
I really liked Apocalypse Rising. It's not the strongest of DS9 season premieres, but it's easily the best use of the Klingons since Way of the Warrior. I particularly enjoyed Odo's role throughout. Not being able to change shape was very frustrating for him - losing his ability to Odo is the equivalent of one of us losing our sight or hearing. I remember feeling that Martok turning out to be a changeling instead of Gowron was a bit duff at the time, but it's funny how things work out eventually.

In second place is Walkabout. nuKosh is very creepy! It really got me thinking about Vorlons when he was introduced. Was our Kosh more typical of the race, or was this newer, more abrasive version? I enjoyed seeing G'Kar rallying the non-aligned worlds too. The weaker part of this episode though is the Franklin romance.

Bringing up the rear is the poor VOY Ferengi episode. It was a neat idea to use the Ferengi that were trapped in the Delta Quadrant back in TNG, but they were used in a very typically cliche Ferengi way. Neelix, to boot, dressed up as a Ferengi, which didn't help the annoyingness levels. And then, to add insult to injury, it was an 'oh-we-have-a-way-to-get-home-oh-hang-on-we-haven't' episode.
 
Week 6: (Ending 10.13.96)
DS9 - The Ship (Airdate 10.07.96)
VOY - Remember (Airdate 10.09.96)
B5 - Grey 17 Is Missing (Airdate 10.10.96)

Goodness, this is the second episode in a row we've seen a Changeling die. Might this become a trend, where the crew of DS9 have to route out and kill an evil Changeling each week like some kind of Scoobie-Do cartoon? (nope:p)

So The Ship does something seldom seen in Trek: it gets reflective about the episode's casualties. Very reflective. I don't think we've ever witnessed a scene regarding the "red shirts" quite as long as the one we get here. It's like the writers suddenly realized that, hey, although this is a fictional story, these are still real people within this story, and not just nameless extras that know how to take a fall. The plot's a little thin, mind, and I'm not sure I buy into the Jem'Hadar's hesitancy to rush in because of the Changeling (couldn't it just tuck away in a hidden hovel while everyone's fighting?) but those final couple scenes make up for it.

The other two shows were... eh, they had their moments, but neither could match DS9 this week. VOY turned in an alright Holocaust allegory, even if it was quite blunt about it -not to mention hardly much of a surprise since the tendency in Trek is for Nice Alien-Of-The-Weeks to have a Dark Secret. And despite the material involving Neroon and Marcus being good, it was shuffled off into a b-plot, with B5's A-plot becoming a pointless... pointless... what even the Hell was all that with Englund anyway? Sure, it's nice to see Garibaldi getting something to do, but did the episode really need to regress to Infection-era plots to do it?

What gives, B5? Usually you're really good coming back from the summer break, but the two episodes you've provided since haven't been anywhere near up to snuff compared to where you were back in May. Well, its season finale is coming up in a few, and those have been mint, so we'll see how things turn out. In the meantime, however, DS9 takes the win again, while VOY goes into re-runs for a while.

Weekly Winner
DS9

Next:
DS9 - Looking For Par'Mach In All The Wrong Places
B5 - And The Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place
(holy word count, Batman!)
 
Season 5! This ought to be fun, since I don't think DS9 ever bettered this season.

One thing that shocks (shocks!) me is how few people seem to share my enthusiasm for Apocalypse Rising. For me, this was the sort of thing I'd been waiting for ever since The Way of the Warrior set up false hopes that this Klingon stuff might actually be worthwhile. I enjoyed seeing the characters pretending to be Klingons, enjoyed Dukat helping them, enjoyed Robert O'Reilly's hilariously intense performance, seriously, what's not to like? This is one of my favourite DS9 season openers.
sorry, i don't share it either. ever since 'the way of the warrior' i suspected ds9 would degenerate to a mr worf show with lots of boring klingon-honour episodes, and that's what happened. apocalypse rising is another poor episode with shouting, drunken klingons who would obviously have trouble to operate a pocket calculator, let alone star ships. why did the martok changeling try to kill odo? shapeshifters don't harm each other, odo was none anymore, but how would the martok fake know about it? how comes odo could identify leyton as shapeshifter in 'homefront' instantly, while it took the whole episode here? and why was it such a problem to kill the martok fake, while mirror-odo exploded instantly when hit by a disruptor?
 
I love The Ship! This is probably one of my top ten DS9 episodes. It's so intense - I love the conflict between the characters and the looming Jem'Hadar threat, while the meditations on dead redshirts at the end are very effective. Seeing this, I felt DS9 had entered a new phase.

Obviously Grey 17 is Missing can't compete with this, but I feel that its reputation as one of B5's worst episodes is rather undeserved. OK, the Garibaldi plotline is silly and pointless, but the stuff about the Rangers is good and any episode featuring Neroon gets a thumbs-up from me. I enjoyed it.

Anyway, things are about to get interesting!
 
The Ship is a very, very good DS9 episode, but I think Remember is quite a decent, underrrated VOY episode, certainly giving The Ship a run for its money. The way the mystery is unravelled through telepathy is quite interesting. It's quieter than the DS9 ep, and doesn't have the excitement the latter does either.

Grey 17 is Missing is a very hit and miss episode. The Garabaldi half of the episode can go away, but it does well to remain interesting with the Marcus/Neroon B-plot. This is fascinating, and if the episode had something else as an A-plot focus, it would have been much better. As it is, it loses to both DS9 and VOY this week for me.
 
Week 7: (Ending 10.20.96)
DS9 - Looking For Par'Mach In All The Wrong Places (Airdate 10.14.96)
B5 - And The Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place (Airdate 10.17.96)

Okay, this is just weird. What are the odds that both DS9 and B5 would air the episodes with the longest word count in their titles on the same week? Seriously, both are eight words long, and no other episode from either show has a longer title. Well, there is The Corps Is Mother, The Corps Is Father in B5's S5, but that's also eight words long. However, DS9 beats B5 on syllables, 11-9. Hah!

Anyhow, DS9 strikes gold again with the Klingon Komedy! Who would have thought a follow-up to The House Of Quark would have succeeded, but it does. It's all the little touches to this episode that makes it so much fun: Worf tossing Morn out of his seat, Worf singing opera on the bridge of the Defiant, Worf... wait a moment! When did Worf become such a funny guy? It's a light-hearted episode that doesn't take itself too seriously, which is quite a contrast compared to the previous two; a welcome diversion, though hopefully not a trend.

B5, on the other hand, seems to be gearing up for something... big. Londo's scheming against Refa was brilliant -who'd have ever thought he and G'Kar would ever manage to find a common goal, eh? Not to mention that great juxtaposition with the gospel song! Then the revelation of a fleet of White Star ships. It all feels like a proper calm before a storm. Time for a counter-attack against the Shadows, mayhaps? Could that be what that ominous "Z-Minus" be about, huh?

Hm. Both are good episodes in different ways. I'm actually quite torn to choose; I enjoy them both. DS9 made me laugh much more but B5 gets me excited for what's to follow. I think, in the end, B5 gets the edge, simply for Refa's final scene. It's something I don't think was ever done in sci-fi TV, and lasts with you long after the episode ends.

Weekly Winner
B5

Next:
DS9 - ...Nor The Battle To The Strong
B5 - Shadow Dancing
 
I went to the rock to hide my face...

I love both these episodes. Looking For Par'Mach... is a lot of fun and Worf may finally be becoming a worthwhile character in this series. I think this is probably my favourite of Season 5's humour episodes. Also, I like the Kira/O'Brien subplot a lot.

However, And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place gets my vote here. I enjoyed the scheming and G'Kar's role in it and overall this is one of Londo's finest hours. Refa's death is one of those scenes you don't forget in a hurry. Oh, and there's the love, obviously.
 
:lol: at the long titles!

DS9 has a very good episode this week. The show's humour episodes are hit and miss, but luckily this one is a hit. Worf fighting for Quark is a really funny moment! The O'Brien/Kira subplot is a favourite of mine - no matter what the two try and do they keep ending up in compromising situations with each other. It takes Kira to finally shift herself to Bajor to be with Sakaar before it ends, but the way it is all written makes it so realistic.

B5, however, ramps up the sense of forboding like it's done so often before. The way Londo deals with Refa is such a beautiful scene - Refa is most befitting of such punishment, and G'Kar's involvement in the whole thing raises it up a notch. Him and Londo being allies is a very unlikely scenario when it first happens. The music in the background is perfection. Deserved B5 victory this week.

Next week is one of my favourite DS9 episodes up against one of my favourite B5 episodes. :lol:
 
Week 7: (Ending 10.27.96)
DS9 - Nor The Battle To The Strong (Airdate 10.21.96)
B5 - Shadow Dancing (Airdate 10.24.96)

Okay, now this is getting weird. Look, I know there's been all this silly 'net rumor that DS9 and B5 were actually tied at the hip: they were both set on a space station, they both involve a Big War, they both have leads that go on to be religious icons, etc. etc. What I didn't count on was that their episodes would end up being identical in other ways too. Last week featured the two longest episode titles, and now this week features the same director: Kim Friedman! It must be a conspiracy, designed to keep all the other sci-fi shows down! In fact, I'll bet she (he?) was in on it all along, turning out great episodes for DS9 like The Jem'Hadar and The Ship while doing poor ones for VOY like Cathexis and Twisted (though, to be fair, Kim also did Jetrel).

Then, of course, we have Nor The Battle..., which is yet another great DS9 episode, getting the characters down in the muck of reality once again. Not only that, but it casts Jake Sisko, a main character, in a surprisingly unheroic light. This is a young man that has quite a bit of growing up to do still, and he gets a harsh dose of reality this week. Then, ever the great father-figure, Ben Sisko points out that what he's gone through is something nearly everyone in combat goes through, and that he shouldn't be so hard on himself. Great scene.

Having turned in a strong DS9 episode once again, Friedman then bolts over to the B5 lot and shoots Shadow Dancing, where... holy shit! Now that's one hell of a battle! When that fleet first comes out was great, then the way it escalates, climaxing with just music and what we see on screen... yeah, damn epic. Yet, not glorified in the least, as it finishes with the grim faces of Sheridan and Delenn amongst the floating wreckage in space. And hell, that's only one third of what's going on in this episode! Granted, it was a little annoying having the battle inter-cut with Franklin's gruesome walk, but even that was handled well; plus, he gets a pretty good monologue for his troubles. As for the ending, though it's a bit soap-operaish (hello, dead wife back from the dead, what?), you can't deny it's possibly one of the strongest cliff-hangers the series has given us. Wait... a cliff-hanger going into the season finale? Whatever could be in store for us next week? Er, other than VOY coming back from re-runs, that is.

Kim Friedman wins this week. Which of his (her?) episodes though? Well, er, B5 obviously. It's a pretty big Event Episode, y'know. But don't take my word for it, wait for what Pemmer and Seven have to say. :p


Weekly Winner
B5

Next:
DS9 - The Assignment
VOY - Sacred Ground
B5 - Z'Ha'Dum
 
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