When I watched Hunter, Prey I spent about five minutes desperately trying to remember where I'd seen Bernie Casey before, until I realised that it was The Maquis. These two episodes are closely matched, but I'd just about give Visionary the edge. It's this season's "really cool Chief O'Brien episode" like Whispers was in Season 2, and hey look, Romulans!
DS9 Versus: A viewing experient
- Thread starter Sykonee
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You know what else these two have in common? In both episodes, O'Brien sees himself get killed.
It's true. The implications of O'Brien's fate in this episode make my head hurt a bit actually, but I think it's best just to accept it.
I agree that Visionary is a good episode (even though there are some causality issues with some of O'Brien's jumps.)
Emanations - Harry Kim returns from the dead, dies and then returns from the dead on Voyager. Also great for Metaphysics...
Emanations - Harry Kim returns from the dead, dies and then returns from the dead on Voyager. Also great for Metaphysics...
Oh, geez, this was my first time seeing this episode. Way to ruin whether Kim is revived or not.
Week 23: (Ending 03.19.95)
VOY - Emanations (Airdate 03.13.95)
What Prime Directive?
This episode seems to have received a lot of discussion over the years regarding how it handles the after-life, that Braga used it as something of a soap-box for atheism yet wasn't willing to quite go ALL the way with it by throwing a 'maybe so' bone to the religious folks out there at the end. I honestly wasn't all that interested in the topic here tho'. I've seen Trek do the 'question beliefs' bit many times before, and there wasn't anything terribly new about it here.
No, the thing that had me going
most of the time was how the VOY crew -and Kim on... wherever he was- threw all caution to the wind regarding who they were and where they come from. Um, HELLO??? WHAT IF THIS IS SOME KIND OF PRE-WARP CIVILIZATION???? WHERE'S YOUR PRIME DIRECTIVE???? You don't know anything about this race, yet here you are, casually going on about things that could easily send their culture into a tailspin of chaos. Sure, I might give Kim a bit of a pass since he's just green and all, but not Janeway when she's talking with Ptera.And ultimately, I'm not even sure what the point of the episode was. Some things happen, Kim gets lost and finds his way back, and none of the mystery is solved. *sigh*
But hey, DS9 and B5 are taking a break right now, so VOY wins anyway.
Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
VOY - Prime Factors
Yes, considering how eager Janeway usually is to uphold the PD and how gleefully they usually like to leave pre-warp civilisations to die it did seem strange how chatty Harry was. Then again, maybe he figured that since he was already being mistaken for someone from the other side then he couldn't do much more harm by telling them about Voyager than he had already...
This one does highlight the inconsistencies in Braga's writing, though. He comes up with an idea - the web stuff covering the bodies is a 'bipolymer resin' produced as the body decomposes...so how come Ptera arrives on the asteroid with this stuff all over her? If she's that far decomposed they shouldn't have been able to revive her - or at least it shouldn't have been a pleasant sight - and then when they try to beam her back through the space warp thingy she reappears back on the transporter pad covered in this stuff again. What? Gosh, this girl decomposes quickly. And yet not at all.
Though I did smile of Tuvok's mention of 'the ship's morgue'. Why do I get the feeling that's one of the busiest places on the ship?
This one does highlight the inconsistencies in Braga's writing, though. He comes up with an idea - the web stuff covering the bodies is a 'bipolymer resin' produced as the body decomposes...so how come Ptera arrives on the asteroid with this stuff all over her? If she's that far decomposed they shouldn't have been able to revive her - or at least it shouldn't have been a pleasant sight - and then when they try to beam her back through the space warp thingy she reappears back on the transporter pad covered in this stuff again. What? Gosh, this girl decomposes quickly. And yet not at all.
Though I did smile of Tuvok's mention of 'the ship's morgue'. Why do I get the feeling that's one of the busiest places on the ship?
A very interesting thread and a nice read. I found the whole thing so far surprisingly brisk, entertaining and to the point summations. Kudos!
So of course his stories have to be about him being put in traumatizing situations endlessly. It's what he does best!
Hey, they're O'Brien Must Suffer episodes - like, um, pretty much every single O'Brien-centric episode in the series' run. O'Brien's one of the only characters on DS9 who is honest to goodness a normal joe - he's not an exotic alien with a weird culture, a pal of godlike aliens, or a genetic superman.You know what else these two have in common? In both episodes, O'Brien sees himself get killed.
So of course his stories have to be about him being put in traumatizing situations endlessly. It's what he does best!
Week 24: (Ending 03.26.95)
VOY - Prime Factors (Airdate 03.20.95)
Prime Directive what?
Lots going on in this episode, but the best part about it is how it manages to continuously build.
"Oh, look, nice aliens. Ho hu-"
"Oh, look, a way home. Ah, hm-"
"Oh, look! Reverse PD. Ha-ha-"
"Oh. Black market dealing? Say, tha-"
"Oh! Lower rank mutiny! Say, this is-"
"Damn. Now that's a verbal beatdown. So much for that 'crew getting along' bit, huh."
Yeah, some might point out that, unfortunately, very little came of this episode, but how were we to know that on first run? Right now, it looks like VOY is shaping up to be a serious contender in the sci-fi game. It's making use of its premise, and manging to create some effective drama in the process. It goes into repeats for a bit now, and will return with DS9 back in the thick of things as well.
Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
DS9 - Distant Voices
VOY - State Of Flux
VOY - Prime Factors (Airdate 03.20.95)
Prime Directive what?
Lots going on in this episode, but the best part about it is how it manages to continuously build.
"Oh, look, nice aliens. Ho hu-"
"Oh, look, a way home. Ah, hm-"
"Oh, look! Reverse PD. Ha-ha-"
"Oh. Black market dealing? Say, tha-"
"Oh! Lower rank mutiny! Say, this is-"
"Damn. Now that's a verbal beatdown. So much for that 'crew getting along' bit, huh."
Yeah, some might point out that, unfortunately, very little came of this episode, but how were we to know that on first run? Right now, it looks like VOY is shaping up to be a serious contender in the sci-fi game. It's making use of its premise, and manging to create some effective drama in the process. It goes into repeats for a bit now, and will return with DS9 back in the thick of things as well.
Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
DS9 - Distant Voices
VOY - State Of Flux
Oops. (But then that is what the episode is most commonly described as...)Oh, geez, this was my first time seeing this episode. Way to ruin whether Kim is revived or not.
Week 25: (Ending 04.16.95)
DS9 - Distant Voices (Airdate 04.10.95)
VOY - State Of Flux (Airdate 04.10.95)
Ah yes, the big "Seska turns traitor" episode. It's... kind of lost its luster in hindsight, but at the time...
Mm, y'know, it still didn't seem all that big a deal at the time. The most troublesome member of the Maquis crew was the traitor? Sure didn't see that coming (
). The whole reveal was also unfortunately waayy too exposition-heavy to create a proper gut-punch of drama. About the only thing that resonated with me about it was Chakotay's reaction to the whole thing. Poor guy, who can he trust? Next thing you know, it'll be revealed that Janeway is actually a rival-Maquis band posing as a Starfleet captain! Well, maybe not...
Still, it's a better episode than watching Bashir stumbling around in the dark wearing old-man make-up. Admirable attempt in giving him some character, but it didn't really reveal anything we didn't already know about him. Meh.
VOY takes the week, and, perhaps satisfied it's currently coming across as Top-Dog right now, decides to rest on its laurels for a week. Careful... DS9 might get some momentum going...
Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
DS9 - Through The Looking Glass
DS9 - Distant Voices (Airdate 04.10.95)
VOY - State Of Flux (Airdate 04.10.95)
Ah yes, the big "Seska turns traitor" episode. It's... kind of lost its luster in hindsight, but at the time...
Mm, y'know, it still didn't seem all that big a deal at the time. The most troublesome member of the Maquis crew was the traitor? Sure didn't see that coming (
). The whole reveal was also unfortunately waayy too exposition-heavy to create a proper gut-punch of drama. About the only thing that resonated with me about it was Chakotay's reaction to the whole thing. Poor guy, who can he trust? Next thing you know, it'll be revealed that Janeway is actually a rival-Maquis band posing as a Starfleet captain! Well, maybe not...Still, it's a better episode than watching Bashir stumbling around in the dark wearing old-man make-up. Admirable attempt in giving him some character, but it didn't really reveal anything we didn't already know about him. Meh.
VOY takes the week, and, perhaps satisfied it's currently coming across as Top-Dog right now, decides to rest on its laurels for a week. Careful... DS9 might get some momentum going...
Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
DS9 - Through The Looking Glass
Ah, you're reaching what I consider DS9's best part of Season 3 in the next 3 episodes. I have a feeling the tides will be turning.
For an episode that gives Garak so much screen time, Distant Voices is decidedly weak.
I can't remember much about the Voyager episode, but Seska was cool, wasn't she?
I can't remember much about the Voyager episode, but Seska was cool, wasn't she?
Hey, I really liked Distant Voices, *looks around*. Uh-oh *runs and hides*.
Seriously, I thought it was a pretty good dark and scary story, and I enjoyed it quite a lot more than State of Flux, which although better than the average mystery story, doesn't have that much of a big reveal. Oh, Seska was the traitor. WOW, I never saw that one!
I would have given it to Distant Voices, but then I seem to be alone in my loving of that episode.
Seriously, I thought it was a pretty good dark and scary story, and I enjoyed it quite a lot more than State of Flux, which although better than the average mystery story, doesn't have that much of a big reveal. Oh, Seska was the traitor. WOW, I never saw that one!
I would have given it to Distant Voices, but then I seem to be alone in my loving of that episode.
My thoughts exactly. Between Meridian and Distant Voices it was kind of inconsistent, but Season 3 really picks up from here on in, especially the next three episodes.
I found both episodes 'meh', but then I was spoiled about Seska being a Cardie agent from the word go. That's what happens when you watch shows years after they've aired, and you have access to the Internet. 
Bashir-centric episodes were bad or average until season 4 - rhen came a big turnaround with "Hippocratic Oath" , and from that moment on, his episodes were solid or great. The episodes improved together with the character and the actor.
In other news, my big DS9 rewatch/B5 first-time watch will have to wait, because I've decided to give Enterprise another chance. Surprisingly, while I hated the show and the characters the last time I tried to watch the pilot, this time I was OK with it. Maybe I was in the wrong mood the first time, or maybe watching Voyager has lowered my standards but this time I was not that put off by some things as I was the first time, and I was able to tolerate them (the horrible theme song, human crew's gung-ho mentality, ridiculous decon scene, Scott Bakula). The show is not so bad if you press the mute button during the credits or FF them, I'm starting to see their mentality as refreshing compared to the blandness of most of the TNG and VOY crew, and Scott Bakula... oh well, I'd still rather have a more compelling and charismatic actor as the captain, but what can you do.
Bashir-centric episodes were bad or average until season 4 - rhen came a big turnaround with "Hippocratic Oath" , and from that moment on, his episodes were solid or great. The episodes improved together with the character and the actor.
In other news, my big DS9 rewatch/B5 first-time watch will have to wait, because I've decided to give Enterprise another chance. Surprisingly, while I hated the show and the characters the last time I tried to watch the pilot, this time I was OK with it. Maybe I was in the wrong mood the first time, or maybe watching Voyager has lowered my standards
but this time I was not that put off by some things as I was the first time, and I was able to tolerate them (the horrible theme song, human crew's gung-ho mentality, ridiculous decon scene, Scott Bakula). The show is not so bad if you press the mute button during the credits or FF them, I'm starting to see their mentality as refreshing compared to the blandness of most of the TNG and VOY crew, and Scott Bakula... oh well, I'd still rather have a more compelling and charismatic actor as the captain, but what can you do.
Oh dear, let's not bring ENT into this. Considering this thread focuses on comparing shows against each other as they aired, it might re-spark those ENT/nu-BSG debates. And you thought the DS9/B5 ones were epic...
Week 26: (Ending 04.23.95)
DS9 - Through The Looking Glass (Airdate 04.17.95)
The final scene hints at the lost potential of this episode, where Sisko has to confront his feelings for Jennifer all over again, and resist the temptation to perhaps, just maybe, be with Mirror Jenn as a replacement, as it becomes apparent she starts having feelings for him. I guess the action/adventure slant is fine, but still...
Oh well. This episode features the best version of Dax!
May Sweeps are now on the horizon, and all three shows return next week for a showdown of... well, maybe not epic proportions. But with VOY riding a hot streak and B5 feeling emboldened by its ambitious arcs, DS9's going to have to do something extraordinary to leap out from the pack. (
)
Weekly Winner
DS9
Next:
DS9 - Improbable Cause
VOY - Heroes And Demons
B5 - There All The Honor Lies
Week 26: (Ending 04.23.95)
DS9 - Through The Looking Glass (Airdate 04.17.95)
The final scene hints at the lost potential of this episode, where Sisko has to confront his feelings for Jennifer all over again, and resist the temptation to perhaps, just maybe, be with Mirror Jenn as a replacement, as it becomes apparent she starts having feelings for him. I guess the action/adventure slant is fine, but still...
Oh well. This episode features the best version of Dax!
May Sweeps are now on the horizon, and all three shows return next week for a showdown of... well, maybe not epic proportions. But with VOY riding a hot streak and B5 feeling emboldened by its ambitious arcs, DS9's going to have to do something extraordinary to leap out from the pack. (
)Weekly Winner
DS9
Next:
DS9 - Improbable Cause
VOY - Heroes And Demons
B5 - There All The Honor Lies
Oh dear, let's not bring ENT into this. Considering this thread focuses on comparing shows against each other as they aired, it might re-spark those ENT/nu-BSG debates. And you thought the DS9/B5 ones were epic...
Really? On this forum, I presume? I spent a lot of time on the Skiffy BSG forum, and I never saw any such debates.
I can't even remember anyone ever comparing it to ENT... a few people compared it to DS9, during S4 some disappointed BSG fans compared it unfavorably to B5 (having a planned storyarc vs making it up as you go along) and some to Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles (the development of cyborg/Cylon characters), there have been a few 'which is better, BSG or Lost?' threads.. and of course, there would always be a few whining TOSsers around... That's all I can think of. *shrug*Similar threads
