DS9 should get Remastered
- Thread starter Trekmaster555
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A
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If they are, I'll get them when they come down to $30 each. 
J.
J.
I was never convinced on this until I saw TOS in HD- then I became and instant convert. Look, if you love TNG and DS9, you should be dying to see your favourite characters in HD. It looks AWESOME. I know it'll never happen, but you really should wish that it would, because it just looks so damned good.
A
Amaris
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Well, the DVDs of TNG are okay on my HD set, but the DS9 episodes from the compilation DVDs I have look excellent, so yeah. TNG I will probably rebuy eventually, but DS9 looks stellar.
J.
J.
I don't think anyone can seriously suggest that we shouldn't go back and rescan or whatever they do to the film so that we can get these episodes in HD. Clearly this must be done by Paramount/CBS to prevent these properties from degrading into oblivion. I think for TNG/DS9/VOY it's not so much that they need to be remastered (which they do), but it's that they have to be completely re-edited as well (since all the editing was done on video). I would think that would be the real time-consuming (and expensive) part of the process. Remastering TOS seemed to me to be done on a shoe-string budget, but they did a remarkable job. Remastering TNG will be much more involved. And I don't think there's any way around the fact that the SFX will have to be redone. We could choose to recreate the shots EXACTLY as they were, and that's all well and dandy. But at the bare minimum, GLARING mistakes should be corrected.
Defiant-2's registry should be NCC-75633. Riker's line about Yamato's registry being "1305-E" should be redone as NCC-71807 (while he's still alive!). "Brittain" should be fixed to "Brattain". "Melbourne" should be a Nebula-class ship as it was originally. Etc. Etc.
Defiant-2's registry should be NCC-75633. Riker's line about Yamato's registry being "1305-E" should be redone as NCC-71807 (while he's still alive!). "Brittain" should be fixed to "Brattain". "Melbourne" should be a Nebula-class ship as it was originally. Etc. Etc.
Actually that's not at all what I meant. And here I thought my example with the gramophone recording was pretty plausible.
Having CDs (and later DVDs) the size of vinyl records is stupid. And of course I'm not arguing that. But the CD would be a rather redundant storing device if everything that was recorded well before its invention would have to be re-recorded in order to be playable with it.But that's exactly what some people are suggesting here: That the effects of Deep Space Nine must be re-done or else it can't be released on future formats. And I find that to be a rather flawed logic. Again, I'm all for the perfection of picture and sound quality, but not to the point where the source material actually has to be replaced.
I guess my problem with re-doing the effects of television shows is rather philosphical in nature. I do recognize that Deep Space Nine is merely a piece of entertainment. So, all it really has to do is entertain. And if some people think new effects would advance the level of entertainment, well, more power to them.
It's just that I have trouble getting behind that kind of mentality. The effects originally created for Deep Space Nine are indeed very good ones (well, in my opinion at least). And they are very much a part of the series. They are also a product of its time, which is something I appreciate.
I mean, where does this all lead us? What if at some point in the future yet another standard for picture quality comes around? What if the perception of what constitues a good special effect changes yet again in the future? I guess my point is, that an entertainment product shouldn't be changed just to adapt to the latest notion of what people consider visually pleasing.
So, while I can accept that this will eventually happen (if not necessarily to Deep Space Nine) and that it's okay, since it's really just a television show, I still don't understand why anyone would want the show to change in order to look better to eyes accustomed to high definition images.
No offense, Captain Fine, but that perfectly illustrates the mentality I fail to understand. None of these are 'GLARING mistakes' in my opinion. They don't distract from the viewing experience at all. In fact I love these kind of oddities, since they enable another level of enjoyment for those engaging in the details of the shows.
See, I'm the opposite. I can't understand why anyone wouldn't.
I'm fully in favour of a full update with new better effects. The effects of the time were acceptable at best. They were never excellent, good for TV at the time maybe, but never anything special.
Take, for example, The Way of the Warrior, with its epic space battle. Even in SD this looks bad. A mere upgrading of the original material might be ok for internal live action shots, but the kitbashed plastic models exploding on strings would take even the most imaginative of us out of the action. To prove my point, I refer to the damaged K'Tinga class Klingon cruiser with the bright orange flame burning up the side, if anyone can get a screencap of this would appreciated.
A straight upgrade to HD just won't cut it and the every last effect shot need be upgraded. At the distances we see the passing ships and stations, today's audiences are accustomed to seeing interiors, and I'd fully expect that with any HD release.
As for trying to understand the differing mentalities:
If the effects and visuals are not important to the story or your enjoyment of the show, then a full upgrade will detract nothing.
If you object to a full upgrade on the grounds that you prefer it the way that it is, well, you already have it the way that it is. I'd consider that quite an immature attitude to take in all honesty. The effects are good enough to serve the needs of the story, but they're neither convincing nor immersive, and in some cases distractively bad.
Correcting the errors is important too. While I couldn't give a 4X about the Defiant's registry, it shouldn't be wrong either. One thing I could stand to lose is the aeronautic flight behaviour of starships in space. Every new series/film that adopts a more realistic approach to zero-G renders the star trek/wars approach ever more archaic. Was it Unification Part 1 that showed us the Enterprise doing a three point turn in space? I mean?
Doesn't have to be a full lucasification, no (not many) dinosaurs on the promenade, but any shot that doesn't look real, or could sell the scene better, must receive the enhancement it deserves.
I'm all for remastering TV shows shot on 35mm to HD 1080p. With tv series that edited and mastered on video it makes it harder to retelecine to HD. The thread on remastering TNG really details the needs of TNG, DS9 and VOY if they were to be remastered to HD like TOS-R.
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=91561
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=91561
I know, I play Xbox at 1080i and some games look absolutely incredible, I wouldn't be able to play on an SDTV again. But when it comes to blu-ray I think of it as more of a movie format than a TV show type of thing, and I'm not much of a film-buff, most of my DVDs are series box-sets.
But that's the way entertainment has worked for hundreds of years. Just look at Shakespeare's plays, back when they were first performed they didn't have electric lighting and all the female roles had to be played by men in straw wigs. We don't conform to the way things were done in the 17th century just because that's the way the plays were originally produced, a modern production keeps the script and characters but we use modern technologies like spotlights and women. (Because women are a technology invented in 1734. By a Scotsman, I believe.)
So long as the characters and stories are the same then I have no problem with updating the effects and fixing goof's like the Defiant-A's registry number.
The reason why they are remastering is for high definition broadcasts, downloads, and BluRay releases.
If you don't understand why, check out the Babylon 5 DVDs. The effects there were rendered for 480p displays, while the non-effects shots look fine as they were filmed in a forward-looking format where they can easily be upconverted to HD. The result is everytime an effects shot is used (which is A LOT in B5), the video quality is highly pixelated. And that's just on standard resolution DVD; a HD release would look much worse.
With TOS they went in and remastered the effects and video to preserve image quality when viewed on 1080p displays. Blowing up the original effects to HD would result in a grainly blur.
As for DS9 being remastered; it will never happen. TOS is only three seasons and sellls very well, TNG sells even better so it's financially viable for them to remaster the series. On the other hand, DS9 and VOY only sold to the core niche group of fans and there simply is not the audience there to justify a costly remastering of the series in HD.
Terminology point of order: All "remaster" means is to make a new master tape/disc/file/etc from which subsequent copies can be made for wider distribution. That's ALL. A "remastering" can involve no changes at all - it can just mean to rescan a film reel (and in some low-end remasterings, that is indeed all it means). Casting up stuff like Lucas and his constant reediting of the Star Wars movies is a separate issue.
On a "proper" DS9 remastering - i.e., one taken with the aim of improving the picture quality... as has been said, it's highly unlikely to happen in the way of TOS-R because of the cost: unlike TOS-R, where they had full and final edits on film, they would need to redo all the post-production work from scratch (including all optical effects, such as phaser blasts - although, contrary to popular belief, only the CGI visual effects would need to be completely redone. They could recomposite any model shots where they still have all the elements, with only stuff like phasers/photons/etc actually needing to be redone from scratch).
So it's a moot point, really. They aren't even likely to do a TNG-R before the day they can't sell the SD version at all.
On a "proper" DS9 remastering - i.e., one taken with the aim of improving the picture quality... as has been said, it's highly unlikely to happen in the way of TOS-R because of the cost: unlike TOS-R, where they had full and final edits on film, they would need to redo all the post-production work from scratch (including all optical effects, such as phaser blasts - although, contrary to popular belief, only the CGI visual effects would need to be completely redone. They could recomposite any model shots where they still have all the elements, with only stuff like phasers/photons/etc actually needing to be redone from scratch).
So it's a moot point, really. They aren't even likely to do a TNG-R before the day they can't sell the SD version at all.
Weren't they just upscaling/overlaying tests, rather than the full (expensive) back-to-film-elements it would need to do it properly?
If anyone thinks that CBS/Paramount is NOT planning to remaster TNG for HD, then I'm sorry but you're out of your fracking minds! TNG is and was the most popular of all the Treks (in terms of ratings). There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it'll get remastered. Otherwise they'd be sitting on a property that's deteriorating under their noses. How many more TNG DVDs can they reasonably expect to sell? For the most part, anyone who wants it, already has it. To sell more, they have to do an HD release. And to do that, they need to remaster it. Therefore, they WILL remaster it. I suspect DS9 and VOY will eventually get done, but it's nowhere near certain. I guess it really depends on TNG and how much it costs them to go back to the film originals and reedit all the scenes and redo all the effects. If TNG proves too expensive, they may just scrap DS9 until later, when it becomes more cost-effective to do so. That said, I'm certain they have all the film elements filed away by episode somewhere in the Paramount vault.
People are too damn spoiled these days. Let's stop upgrading anything and everything to make it more palatable to today's whiny modern audiences and spend that time making something new instead. Otherwise, where does it end?
(goes back to his DS9 DVD marathon where the picture looks just fine)
(goes back to his DS9 DVD marathon where the picture looks just fine)
Remaster all of Trek I say! All of it! ROOOOOOOOOAAAAAAARRRRR!!!!
(I've been drinking MD 20/20)
(I've been drinking MD 20/20)
I absolutely agree. I won't be watching TOS with new effects and I won't be watching DS9 with new effects. If that means that I'll never see it in high definition, then that's the way it is.
I tempted to say that everytime someone demands to "remaster" something while they just mean new special effects. But have given up on wasting my breath about it .
So, are you saying that better special effects would ruin it for you? It takes all sorts I suppose...
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