DS9 Inconsistencies

[Calum Gore]

In the third series of DS9 where Garek is reunited with Tain, they attack the Dominion with obsidian order and the tal shiar. They did not succeed and the Dominion made further threats against the Romulans and Cardassians of annihilation. Above all things the Dominion value order, and in terms of order the Klingons, Cardassians, Romulins and then the Federation. So after the attack by the Cardassians and the Romulins, the Dominion start a war with the federation instead of retaliating against the aggressors. Furthermore, they made a partnership with the Cardassians and signed a non-aggresive pact with the Romulans. They also was in league with the orion syndicate, talk about no order.

One could say they where dividing and conquering, but it is too far fetched to believe that any race that two other races attempted to wipe out would ever trust each other, nor would they form alliances to start a war with a peaceful federation. Thoughts?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

They manufacture the order they want. They put their bureaucrats and soldiers throughout Cardassian territory. Sounds like they were well on their way.

 

[Ometiklan]

Plus when the Cardassian/Romulan attack fails, the changeling says that without the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order, Cardassia and Romulus are no longer big threats to them. So then they "team" up to take out the final threats, the Federation and the Klingons, after tricking those two powers into a, brief, conflict with each other. Makes sense to me.

 

[Timo]

Does it need to make sense, though? The Nazis were all about racial superiority, and then went and allied themselves with Japan, of all things. Propaganda and practice are different things.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Calum Gore]

They manufacture the order they want. They put their bureaucrats and soldiers throughout Cardassian territory. Sounds like they were well on their way.

I suppose that’s an opinion, however, as we know the Cardassians are not trust worthy, placing bureaucrats and soldiers in the heart of an untrusty worthy people who attacked them to commit sucide and start a war with the Federation and the Klingons, and then the Romulans turn against the Dominion, after some divide and conquer by Sisko (another untrust worthy race, that attempted genicide too). Doesn’t sound like they were well om there way at all. It seems to me that they could not see two moves in fromt of them.

 

[Calum Gore]

Plus when the Cardassian/Romulan attack fails, the changeling says that without the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order, Cardassia and Romulus are no longer big threats to them. So then they "team" up to take out the final threats, the Federation and the Klingons, after tricking those two powers into a, brief, conflict with each other. Makes sense to me.

They only take out the Tal Shiar and Obsidian order. A total of ships, the main millitary forces behind the Cardassains and Romulans are still in tact.

 

[Calum Gore]

They only take out the Tal Shiar and Obsidian order. A total of 40 ships, the main millitary forces behind the Cardassains and Romulans are still in tact.

 

[Calum Gore]

Does it need to make sense, though? The Nazis were all about racial superiority, and then went and allied themselves with Japan, of all things. Propaganda and practice are different things.

Timo Saloniemi

I don’t think you can compare the two. After WWI reparations and restrictions were imposed on Germany, which ultimately led to one mans position obtaining power and starting WWII. You cannot blame the whole country, nor the soldiers, are you familar with Stanley Millgrams work. The Dominion were a technologically advanced, powerful and had vast space.

 

[Calum Gore]

Plus when the Cardassian/Romulan attack fails, the changeling says that without the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order, Cardassia and Romulus are no longer big threats to them. So then they "team" up to take out the final threats, the Federation and the Klingons, after tricking those two powers into a, brief, conflict with each other. Makes sense to me.

They didn’t wipe out the Cardassians and Romulans, they wiped out 40 ships.

 

[Calum Gore]

I suppose that’s an opinion, however, as we know the Cardassians are not trust worthy, placing bureaucrats and soldiers in the heart of an untrusty worthy people who attacked them to commit genicide and start a war with the Federation and the Klingons, and then the Romulans turn against the Dominion, after some divide and conquer by Sisko (another untrust worthy race, that attempted genicide too). Doesn’t sound like they were well om there way at all. It seems to me that they could not see two moves in front of them.

 

[Ometiklan]

They only take out the Tal Shiar and Obsidian order. A total of ships, the main millitary forces behind the Cardassains and Romulans are still in tact.

They didn’t wipe out the Cardassians and Romulans, they wiped out 40 ships.

I never said anything about wiping out the military forces. The Founder is very clear about being concerned with the primary intelligence/spy organizations of those two powers. Without those working in concert with the military forces and governments overall, the Founders thought the Cardassians and Romulans would be easy pickings. The Cardassians certainly were, as they fell without a shot fired; and the Romulans were stupidly sitting it out until Sisko and Garek tricked them back in. So I would say the Founder was spot on.

 

[Calum Gore]

I never said anything about wiping out the military forces. The Founder is very clear about being concerned with the primary intelligence/spy organizations of those two powers. Without those working in concert with the military forces and governments overall, the Founders thought the Cardassians and Romulans would be easy pickings. The Cardassians certainly were, as they fell without a shot fired; and the Romulans were stupidly sitting it out until Sisko and Garek tricked them back in. So I would say the Founder was spot on.

I retract only the first part of my sentence, actually only the word “wipe” a better word is ‘hurt’ the bulk of the millitary forces of both Cardassia and The Romulans remained in tact. And, we also know it didn’t completely wipe out the intelligence agencies. Both agencies are mentioned in Voyager ‘Message in a Bottle’ and Gul Dukat mentions the breakdown of the order in ‘The Way of the Warrior’ The Cardassians make an alliance with the Dominion after there heavy losses in their war with the Klingons. As Spock would say the founders logic was flawed.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I suppose that’s an opinion, however, as we know the Cardassians are not trust worthy, placing bureaucrats and soldiers in the heart of an untrusty worthy people who attacked them to commit sucide and start a war with the Federation and the Klingons, and then the Romulans turn against the Dominion, after some divide and conquer by Sisko (another untrust worthy race, that attempted genicide too). Doesn’t sound like they were well om there way at all. It seems to me that they could not see two moves in fromt of them.

You seem to think that the Dominion were looking for compatriots and allies. They were not. The alliance with the Cardassians put the latter under Dominion tutelage. They placed the leader they wanted in power. They collaborated to a point, but successively they dictated orders. When the Cardassians failed to meet expectations, they were replaced.And when they became bothersome, they order them extinguished. The Cardassians didn't have to live up to the ideals of the Founders: no one would. They were simply useful tools ... until they were not.

 

[Calum Gore]

You seem to think that the Dominion were looking for compatriots and allies. They were not. The alliance with the Cardassians put the latter under Dominion tutelage. They placed the leader they wanted in power. They collaborated to a point, but successively they dictated orders. When the Cardassians failed to meet expectations, they were replaced.And when they became bothersome, they order them extinguished. The Cardassians didn't have to live up to the ideals of the Founders: no one would. They were simply useful tools ... until they were not.

The Cardassians were only replaced in the final episodes and were determined for genicide becuase they turned against the Dominion. And, I would be grateful if you would point out where I ‘seem’ to think that the Dominion was looking for allies. It doesn’t explain why the Dominion did not retaliate against the Cardassians or Romulans, after they attempted genicide even if it was parrially engineered by the founders. It’s the perfect excuse to retaliate and bring order to the Alpha Quadrant.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The Cardassians were only replaced in the final episodes and were determined for genicide becuase they turned against the Dominion. And, I would be grateful if you would point out where I ‘seem’ to think that the Dominion was looking for allies. It doesn’t explain why the Dominion did not retaliate against the Cardassians or Romulans, after they attempted genicide even if it was parrially engineered by the founders. It’s the perfect excuse to retaliate and bring order to the Alpha Quadrant.

1. They were replaced by the Breen, who were brought into Cardassia's command center.
2. You wrote, "nor would they form alliances to start a war with a peaceful federation."
3. Your inquiry looks at why the Dominion would make allies with (aka, form an alliance) with a group that caused antagonism toward them. Such alliances between ideological opponents do happen (see Molotok-Ribbentrop). And there are plenty of minor powers who enter into alliances with stronger powers, the latter intending only to use them as tools.

 

[Calum Gore]

He’s another inconsistent variable. Dumar murders Ziyal. Kira an ex terrorist and good field officer and Garek a cunning and brilliant spy and assasin are sent to help Dumar. After he killed someone they both loved. Especially in war revenge takes over. They would of killed Dumar.

 

[Ometiklan]

I retract only the first part of my sentence, actually only the word “wipe” a better word is ‘hurt’ the bulk of the millitary forces of both Cardassia and The Romulans remained in tact. And, we also know it didn’t completely wipe out the intelligence agencies. Both agencies are mentioned in Voyager ‘Message in a Bottle’ and Gul Dukat mentions the breakdown of the order in ‘The Way of the Warrior’ The Cardassians make an alliance with the Dominion after there heavy losses in their war with the Klingons. As Spock would say the founders logic was flawed.

Yeah, so they didn't wipe them out to the last man, so what? 40 starships, crewed by upwards of 20 - 40,000 loyal officers, not to mention the loss of all the materiel that went into the ships, revealing their plans and existence to their governments and populations, etc., etc. This was a major blow to both services, and probably a key reason that the Cardassians were able to install a civilian government only a short time later.

 

[Calum Gore]

1. They were replaced by the Breen, who were brought into Cardassia's command center.
2. You wrote, "nor would they form alliances to start a war with a peaceful federation."
3. Your inquiry looks at why the Dominion would make allies with (aka, form an alliance) with a group that caused antagonism toward them. Such alliances between ideological opponents do happen (see Molotok-Ribbentrop). And there are plenty of minor powers who enter into alliances with stronger powers, the latter intending only to use them as tools.

The Breen come in at the end, once the war was being lost. And, they don’t replace the Cardassians. Replacing the Cardissians would be impossible, that’s why they choose a new lame duck leader. Your third point is inept no alliance in the history of our world has ever been former after attempting genicide that is similar to that of the alliance struck by te Cardassians and Dominion. Point 2 is the inconsistency In talkinh about, they would’ve form allies, they conquer.

 

[Calum Gore]

The Breen come in at the end, once the war was being lost. And, they don’t replace the Cardassians. Replacing the Cardissians would be impossible, that’s why they choose a new lame duck leader. Your third point is inept no alliance in the history of our world has ever been formed after attempting genicide that is similar to that of the alliance struck by te Cardassians and Dominion. Point 2 is the inconsistency Im talking about, they would not form allies, they conquer.

 

[Calum Gore]

Yeah, so they didn't wipe them out to the last man, so what? 40 starships, crewed by upwards of 20 - 40,000 loyal officers, not to mention the loss of all the materiel that went into the ships, revealing their plans and existence to their governments and populations, etc., etc. This was a major blow to both services, and probably a key reason that the Cardassians were able to install a civilian government only a short time later.

Slightly sarcastic and passive aggressive. 40 ships 20 from each power is a drop in the ocean to the millitary powers of both Cardassia and the Romulans. They rebuild ships and have billions in there respective empires. I’m certain you saw the fleets of ships both sides created and the millions that died at the end of the season. There were far more than 40 ships and 20/40,000 loyal officers and crewman.