DS9 a Soap Opera?

[DS9 Gal AZ]

As you can no doubt tell my name, I am an avid DS9 fan. I am aware, of course, that other trekkers are not fond of the show at all, or they like but not as much as another trek show, etc. And that's fine; everyone's entitled to their opinion. What puzzles me, however, is that a frequent criticism of DS9 alleges that it is essentially a "soap opera" set in space.

As someone who's watched soaps even longer than she's watched trek, I don't understand this. DS9 does focus on the characters and their relationships more than any other trek, but I hardly think that makes it a soap opera. It's not like there's warring families, tons of personal secrets, social scandals, endless paternity questions and oodles of long-lost relatives coming out of the woodwork. Oh, and I don't see people having sex/illicit affairs all over the place. Can someone explain to me why people think DS9 is a soap opera?

 

[TheGodBen]

It's not like there's warring families...

There's a Paqu and Navot from The Storyteller.

...tons of personal secrets...

Odo loves Kira, Bashir is genetically enhanced, Tain is Garak's father, and so on.

...social scandals...

Dukat was demoted for having an illegitimate child.

...endless paternity questions...

Miles and Keiko only did the nasty once before conceiving Kirayoshi; is he really the father, or was she having a bit on the side?

Also, Sisko's mother wasn't his real mother!

...and oodles of long-lost relatives coming out of the woodwork.

Dr Mora came looking for Odo, Bashir had a feud with his parents, Thekeny Ghemor came to see Kira before dying, Alexander served with Worf,

Oh, and I don't see people having sex/illicit affairs all over the place.

Well, Star Trek has always been prudish when it comes to sex, so seeing Jadzia "stroking clay" with Vanessa Williams is as close as we're likely to get. Although, I suppose Ezri had sex with Worf (with her clothes on) before dumping him for Bashir.

 

[flemm]

As you can no doubt tell my name, I am an avid DS9 fan. I am aware, of course, that other trekkers are not fond of the show at all, or they like but not as much as another trek show, etc. And that's fine; everyone's entitled to their opinion. What puzzles me, however, is that a frequent criticism of DS9 alleges that it is essentially a "soap opera" set in space.

As someone who's watched soaps even longer than she's watched trek, I don't understand this. DS9 does focus on the characters and their relationships more than any other trek, but I hardly think that makes it a soap opera. It's not like there's warring families, tons of personal secrets, social scandals, endless paternity questions and oodles of long-lost relatives coming out of the woodwork. Oh, and I don't see people having sex/illicit affairs all over the place. Can someone explain to me why people think DS9 is a soap opera?

Basically, when people speak in these terms, they are putting a negative spin on DS9's large cast of recurring characters, ongoing romantic relationships and focus on characters' emotions and personal life.

Obviously I don't agree with the criticism, generally speaking, but there is some truth to it with regard to specific storylines, especially the Worf-Jadzia relationship and eventually the whole Worf/Ezri/Julian/Jadzia's "Afterimage" entanglement of season 7.

Other than that, people do sometimes use the criticism to address a certain weakness of heavily serialized shows where there are sudden plot twists that these viewers perceive as meaningless because they appear out of nowhere, do not develop organically and seem to submit the ongoing storyline to the writers' whims (soap operas, which basically go on indefinitely, often have to resort to this kind of thing to constantly create new storylines). This line of criticism is more common for shows like 24 and nuBSG, though. DS9 mostly did a good job of keeping the overall story flowing organically and maintaining coherent characters (with Dukat in the later seasons being a commonly cited exception).

Incidentally, the second type of criticism does have some weight in my view. It's the main reason I was never able to get into 24. I just didn't care about any of the twists or revelations because they were so obviously conjured out of nowhere. BSG's last couple of seasons can be frustrating for similar reasons, but I do think DS9 successfully avoided this kind of thing for the most part.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

TheGodBen, you point out many incidents, but for the most part they are single occurences ... the warring families, for example, on a standard soap that is an almost constant trope. I think almost any show can be accused of having "soap opera" elements if you look hard enough. Soaps have those elements, but they use them again and again and again because they go on indefinitely. Also they retcon a lot, which trek has done at times but not frequently. And it's not as though DS9 is the first trek to have a story that could be labeled "soap opera." Troi/Riker anyone? Or better yet, Worf/Troi/Riker?

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Methinks TheGodBen was just messing. I would like to point out, however, that Sisko finds out his mama ain't even his mama, plus his dead wife comes back at one point. This is indisputable proof that DS9 is a soap opera, duh!

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

LOL Jeff.

 

[Valin]

A few other soap opera elements: evil twins (mirror universe). One character being played by multiple actresses who don't resemble each other (Dax).
Characters that live in buckets.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I don't get it either. I mean any show has soapish elements if you look hard enough.

For example....

It's not like there's warring families

The House of Mogh and the House of Duras.

tons of personal secrets

Data and Yar were secretly "intimate," Riker has a troubled relationship with his father he doesn't like to talk about, Picard has the hots for Beverly

social scandals

Worf accepts discommendation to avoid one. Worf can't publically acknowledge his son because of his dishonor.

endless paternity questions

Was Picard the biological father of Wesley (the subtext is there in the early episodes), who's the father of Troi's baby in The Child, does Data have the right to be a father.

oodles of long-lost relatives coming out of the woodwork.

Alexander, Kyle Riker, Kestra Troi, Lore, Kurn, Ishara Yar, Nicholai Rozhenko.

Oh, and I don't see people having sex/illicit affairs all over the place.

Data/Yar, Riker/Ro, Worf/K'Ehleyr, Worf/Troi, Crusher/Odan, Crusher/a ghost, Picard/Vash.

 

[DevilEyes]

Was Picard the biological father of Wesley (the subtext is there in the early episodes), who's the father of Troi's baby in The Child, does Data have the right to be a father.

oodles of long-lost relatives coming out of the woodwork.

Alexander, Kyle Riker, Kestra Troi, Lore, Kurn, Ishara Yar, Nicholai Rozhenko.

And don't forget Picard's long-lost son who appears out of nowhere and then turns out not to be his son!

 

[Damask]

Kira's mother slept with Dukat! Crazy soap opera stuff altogether there!

 

[Shanndee]

Everyone has mentioned very good points, but from my experience with friends who were loyal to either TOS or TNG it was an easy excuse to avoid the new series that "threatened" their series.

Set in one location, rarely leaving that location, a large cast with complicated interconnections and even <gasp> families. Add to all of this the serialized nature of the stories, and ta-da!, you have a soap opera. And clearly no self respecting Star Trek fan would watch a soap, right? ;-)

Their loss. Two of said friends have since come around...thank goodness for DVD. However, they still stick to their guns about their sci-fi soap!

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Soap operas don't have epic space battles with the Dominion, damn it! :P

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Some people apparently think "soap opera" is synonymous with "serialized story." Whatever, doesn't bother me.

Soap operas don't have epic space battles with the Dominion, damn it! :P

Well yeah. And they don't delve so much into politics and religion. And they aren't set in space, or in the future, or feature weird-ass aliens or at least not quite so much. Don't worry about it, some people just don't define terms very precisely.

Here's what DS9 is: space opera, a term that comes from the same source as soap opera (namely, horse opera - an archaic term for a Western) and is used for any kind of colorful, not rigorously scientific adventure in space, generally set in the future but not always (eg, Star Wars).

 

[Mr. Scott]

What set this series apart was the fact that it explored themes that were not seen in any of the other Trek shows.

Single parents: Sisko, Rom, Worf, even Dukat. Sisko's and Worf's wives died violent deaths, while rom's wife basically left him for someone wealthier. Worf decides being a Klingon warrior and his career is more important than parenthood. Then they protray the basically Fascist Cardassians as loving family above all else.

Families: Three generations of Sisko's, the Ferengi families (did they have family names?), O'Brien the family man with children and a wife who more or less dislikes being where she is. Dukat and his daughter. Garek and his parents, an overbearing, killer of a father, who treated his mother not as a wife or a mate, but as a servant. This happens in real life too.

The only time that the show made me cry was when Sisko tolda pregnant Kassidy that he was going away to smoke dope with the Prophets for an unknown period of time, which I thought was a horrible way to end his character. He basically abandoned his family for those goofy wormhole aliens. They could at least killed him off in a sectacular fashion, with his soul being sent to the wormhole. (Rom being the Grand Nagus is dumb too.)

The two most evil villians on the show were Kai Winn and the Female shapeshifter, played by two older women. Not fire breathing, ugly, monsterous people, but two women who could be your grandmother and bakes cookies (well the Female Shapeshifter makes peanut butter crunch cookies, but only for the Changling kids, the Solids Kids can go fk themselves.)

 

[JWD75]

I think that it would be difficult to find any long running character based show that didn't some 'soap opera' like elements to it.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

I think that it would be difficult to find any long running character based show that didn't some 'soap opera' like elements to it.

Exactly point, and exactly why I think this particular criticism of DS9 is invalid. I don't have a problem with people critiquing DS9 (even an as avid fan myself, there were some things I didn't like), but the "soap opera" thing has always rankled me.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Another soap opera element? Star Trek characters must always have some type of strained relationship or strife with parents or relatives..

Sometimes you can't even figure out why because the reasons are so vague...

Spok and his parents

Picard - his brother,

Riker - his father,

Worf - his parents and foster brother

Diana- seemed to resent her mother

Worf and Alexander -

Julian resented his parents

Garak and his father

Quark and his mother

Ezri and her mother

DS9 seemed to have a stronger family bonds, but with the other series it was a cliche...


The prudish about sex thing.. I tend to agree.

Remember that scene where Seska kidnaps Chakotay and says she "took his DNA" and impregnated herself?

I always wondered was she refering to his sperm, and why didn't she just say "sperm"? lol

I've seen some rather graphic stuff on shows like Xena and such..

The only time that the show made me cry was when Sisko tolda pregnant Kassidy that he was going away to smoke dope with the Prophets for an unknown period of time

hah! ....

 

[CobraCommander]

Space Opera for sure. I don't think it would be fair to compare DS9 to a daytime soap. Daytimes have to air every day and after a couple of decades, they do tend to recycle everything. I think if there are any comparisons to be made it should be with Prime Soaps. Does anyone remember Knots Landing (1979-1993)? Knots was the spin-off of the Dallas series. What made this show unique was how it started off as being about a bunch of middle class families and their relationships (opposed to Dallas which was about oil and wealth). Although this series outlasted its parent and was really good (seasons 9-13 were hit and miss), it was always viewed as not representative of the Dallas franchise. DS9 was viewed by some in the same way in regards to its place in Trekdom. Both shows also had a non-serialized format in the beginning. In later seasons longer arcs proved to be more viable. Knots did include some more non-serialized episodes after Season 9. DS9 always had non-serialized episodes to throw in (such as Ferengi, mirror, Troi, and hologram episodes ).

I feel that serialization is what made DS9 the great show that it was. Without DS9's serialization, there wouldn't have been all of the knowledge about the Klingons, Cardassians, Bajorans, Ferengi, and other AQ species. There wouldn't have been a gallant send off for John Colicos. As long as the story arc and characters are well developed, arcs are great. What made Knots go downhill was that their story arcs ran out of juice after Season 7 and replacement cast members were weak. At least DS9 ended on a high note with fans still hungry for more. The way it should be. Cobra

 

[robtclements]

I think if there are any comparisons to be made it should be with Prime Soaps. Does anyone remember Knots Landing (1979-1993)?

Very much so. Didn't care for it myself; but David Lynch admitted its influence in the creation of Twin Peaks. Like DS9, it was the bastard son of a profitable franchise, which left the people who were making the show free to break every rule of sensible TV production

For the record, i DON'T have a problem with calling DS9 a soap opera, albeit with the qualification - which even critics tend to acknowledge - that its an often beautifully written one. Its the Niebelungen of soaps, complete with lietmotifs. I accept that the expression is often used as a shorthand by non-fans for not liking the show; but the reason its used so often is that friend & foe alike tend to get what the shorthand means

Like a soap opera, it isn't easy to parachute into the show half-way through - there's too much background material unpinning the narratives that the writers simply assume fans will get. Have you ever tried to explain why Odo is so vicious to Kira in the episode Looking for par'mach....? Its pure soap, as most life secretly is

With regards

 

[Kai Winn]

Soap operas don't have epic space battles with the Dominion, damn it! :P

especially because the dominion war is ds9 a soap opera, the episodes are open-ended, the story is to be continued in another episode. so far no negative meaning, but the whole business dukat/his daughter/kira/her mother certainly is classical soap opera stuff.