Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Tom, May 2, 2019.
Did it need to be? Many of the episodes were simple milk runs with complications.
At best male millenial voting patterns. Women are extremely outvoted by men on IMDb and have hardly any influence on the ratings.
We’re a long way from Wagon Train to the stars, huh?
I think you're right. But it's a Top 10 List nonetheless, as requested. If I did my Top 10, I'd hear "This is biased!" or "Well those are just your favorites!" so I went with something that had thousands of votes as the safe choice. None of the episodes on the list surprise me. And half TNG with the rest split between TOS and DS9, and nothing else breaking in, is kind of what I expect to see these days. No real shockers.
The Top 10 strictly TOS episodes listed on IMDB are (no links this time, I'm feeling "lazy"):
1. The City on the Edge of Forever - 9.3 (3,824 votes)
2. Mirror, Mirror - 9.2 (2,974 votes)
3. Balance of Terror - 9.0 (3,206 votes)
4. Space Seed - 8.9 (3,153 votes)
5. The Trouble With Tribbles - 8.9 (2,863 votes)
6. The Doomsday Machine - 8.8 (2,590 vote)
7. Amok Time - 8.7 (2,734 votes)
8. Journey to Babel - 8.6 (2,273 votes)
9. The Enterprise Incident - 8.6 (2,185 votes)
10. The Devil in the Dark - 8.5 (2,510 votes)
Of these, I don't think "The Trouble With Tribbles" or "The Enterprise Incident" easily fit Campbellian Storytelling or The Hero's Journey. So it doesn't change what I was saying before by much if at all: a lot of the stories easily fit the mold, but some don't. Like @Starflight said, it's just painting everything in the broadest strokes possible.
If given a choice, I'd absolutely want a Captain Pike series over a Section 31 series. Sounds cliche of me to say, but, I think a series set aboard the Enterprise led by Mount's amazing portrayal of Pike would bring the franchise back to its roots; a new Star Trek series led by a captain who is a great leader, has natural charisma, and even a bit of Kirk-like swagger. Mount was instantly likable as Pike to me and I have no doubt he could easily lead a Star Trek series.
And just for fun, I made this a few weeks ago.
Of course they do, the latter especially.
And my original post was a rebuke against the notion that big stakes, heroic adventure is a new fad. And my point is that it's been a part of the franchise DNA all along. So 'broad strokes' absolutely matter because they encompass all the stories into a single defining trait. As I alluded to in my last post, the hero's journey is written write into the franchise chorus. Its core conceit is a metaphoric hero's journey for all humankind.
And as I saw where the discussion was headed, I wanted to nip it in the bud before any "Discovery is not Gene's vision" bullshit crept in. Let's look at Gene's vision for a minute and the three stories that serve as his blueprint for the franchise: The two pilots and TMP. Heck, let's go crazy and throw Man Trap in there as well. All of them fit very neatly into the Campbellian framework and all have a clearly-defined antagonist. TMP has world-ending stakes. And one could easily argue that WNMHGB does too (in a theoretical/philosophical/metaphysical sense).
Seriously? Did you even watch those shows?
Was I talking about those shows made on shoestring budgets or the opening Narration? Do you find milk runs with complications the definition of 'Going Boldly Where No Man has Gone Before'.
I'll go with this, but I want to clarify my point of view for "The Enterprise Incident" because it probably deserves explanation.
I see the Romulans as the protagonists in this episode. Not the other way around. Because it's Starfleet who crossed the border and tried to steal Romulan technology. The Romulan Commander was actually in the right. So I don't see Kirk and Spock being heroes in this instance. Bear in mind it's one of my favorite episodes ever, so that's not a bad thing, but I think "The Enterprise Incident" is a case of the shoe being on the other foot. And, in this case, the hero goes on a journey but she lost. The cloaking device was stolen at the end. On top of that, she thought Spock might become someone who could see the light (from her point of view) and was bitterly disappointed when it turned out that, no matter what, he was still The Enemy. I have no idea why she wanted to go aboard the Enterprise when Spock beamed back. Unless it was supposed to be a tit for tat, maybe hoping she could gather some intelligence from them.
I actually like "The Enterprise Incident" better than "Balance of Terror".
Tying this back to Section 31, that series, like "The Enterprise Incident" and "In the Pale Moonlight", would inherently show the Federation not being the Moral Guardians of the Universe by design.
On another note -- sorry for the double-post -- I'm surprised they haven't announced a Pike Series. What's going on here?
EDIT: Nothing definitive, just "we're thinking about it". No doubt they are. But I figured this would be the Event where they'd go passed "thinking about it" and on to "we're doing it!"
Big fan of Enterprise Incident also
Same here. It's a thin margin because they are easily in my top 10 for TOS.
It would be nice if they were not so moralizing.
And here I thought it was well established that job belonged to the Organians (although Enterprise did attempt a serious try at character assassination with regards to the lighbulbs).
Shhhh.... you're not supposed to remind people of that.
Or the fact that the Metrons referred to Humans as still being half-savage.
Isn't that what Q is for? Judging humanity from on high?
I voted for a Pike show. I think that I'd enjoy it more than a S31 show. Pike fits into the Trek feel better, IMO. Though I don't think S31 would work as a miniseries.
It’s interesting that of the stories you single out, the one with stakes closest to Discovery’s is also the most boring.
It's part of the definition! The Enterprise (and the other Constitution-class like it) are just picking a direction to fly in and seeing what's there. Could be a high-stakes dangerous situation like the Planet Killer, or could just be a mining colony with a socially awkward rock alien trying to defend its babies, or Spock getting horny and straddling Kirk in a desert arena.
And the universe didn't end either there.
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