Dress and Good Grooming: Are We Becoming Slobs?
- Thread starter scotpens
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Rii
Rear Admiral
Dress is a form of identity, based - as with most forms of identity - on the hostile principle of exclusion, of differentiating "us" from "not us". It's all very tribal.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
The current one I hate...big nerdy glasses as chic. Such "trendy" people should be forced to actually need such glasses.
While it's true that dress is superficial and doesn't reflect a person's worth, that dress *can* reflect how a person might feel about themselves. Rightly or not, dress can also be seen as a method of unspoken communication. In the case of a job applicant, somebody who dresses more formally is likely to be seen as somebody who cares enough about getting the job that they take some extra care of their appearance.
I come from a time when long hair was the fashion trend being railed about by the 'establishment' so I make the attempt not to be judgmental about fashions I personally don't find attractive. BUT, there's a place for youthful fashion and a place for more traditional attire and in some cases the two shouldn't meet. For me, that's in the workplace and in formal setting such as some restaurants as well as ceremonial occassions such as weddings, although in many cases casual dress might be requested.
I suppose that ripped clothes are okay for a trip to the mall but not for me. I live in a tourist area so casual dress is acceptable most places that cater to visitors. Even so, I'm kind of sad that so many people don't dress up to go to the theater any longer. For me, that's always a dress-up occassion.
Jan
I come from a time when long hair was the fashion trend being railed about by the 'establishment' so I make the attempt not to be judgmental about fashions I personally don't find attractive. BUT, there's a place for youthful fashion and a place for more traditional attire and in some cases the two shouldn't meet. For me, that's in the workplace and in formal setting such as some restaurants as well as ceremonial occassions such as weddings, although in many cases casual dress might be requested.
I suppose that ripped clothes are okay for a trip to the mall but not for me. I live in a tourist area so casual dress is acceptable most places that cater to visitors. Even so, I'm kind of sad that so many people don't dress up to go to the theater any longer. For me, that's always a dress-up occassion.
Jan
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Amaris
Guest
Very true. When I am depressed, I dress less neatly than normal, I might go two days, maybe three without a shower, and I'm just not pleasant to be around.
When I feel good about myself, I am meticulously clean, with nice clean, pressed clothes, usually semi-formal, and I'm a joy to be near.
I agree with Jan. While I'm certainly not in Holdy's realm fashion meticulousness, I do try to make some effort. I think it presents an air of self-respect and earns the respect of others--as vapid as that may seem to some.
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Amaris
Guest
Well, nice clothes feel good. It may be the OCD, but when I wear nice, clean, pressed, more formal clothing, I feel "in order".
I was big about my appearance while in the Navy. My uniform was always clean and crisply ironed, even while out at sea. I received a grade of Outstanding for either two or three times for Command Inspection (which is a BIG TO DO). After leaving the service, I worked for a contracting company and still kept up with the clean cut look. I then went to work for an insurance company, where being clean shaven and dress apparel (minus a jacket) was required.
I now work as a Federal Contractor where casual dress (aka clean clothes/jeans) is the attire. I have come to the point where I usually shave once a week because getting moving in the morning is something I don't feel like doing anymore.
I now work as a Federal Contractor where casual dress (aka clean clothes/jeans) is the attire. I have come to the point where I usually shave once a week because getting moving in the morning is something I don't feel like doing anymore.
When I feel good about myself, I am meticulously clean, with nice clean, pressed clothes, usually semi-formal, and I'm a joy to be near.
I suspect you are always a joy to be near.
It has been my experience, in the IT/software development world, that people who dress up in the workplace couldn't code their way out of a paper bag. They wear the expensive suits to impress clueless managers and HR droids, and when they get the job and get thrown into the pit, they are woefully outclassed by the other guys who wear t-shirts and have a regular diet of Mountain Dew and Pixie Stix. They proceed to fuck up anything and everything they get their hands on without hesitation, try to pin the blame on everyone but themselves, and while the project their working on goes in the toilet, the so-called "slobs" are busting their asses trying to do continuous damage control instead of going forward. In the meantime, the fore-mentioned clueless managers and HR droids who hired the idiot are scratching their heads, not understanding why they're hearing all this complaining from the coworkers (and worse, clients) about why this one person has been sent to them, all the while thinking "how professional they always looked". Seen it more times than I can remember.
If I were an IT manager and I had a guy come in wearing a 3-piece suit, looking like a villain from Miami Vice, and a disheveled guy who looked a little worse for wear and knowing what the USS Reliant prefix code was from Star Trek II, I would always choose the latter, knowing he would get the job done, hands down.
Quality of dress is absolutely NO measure for the true professionalism of an individual and I'm tired of hearing people trying to legitimize it as such.
Pimps and gangsters dress nice, too, yes?
If I were an IT manager and I had a guy come in wearing a 3-piece suit, looking like a villain from Miami Vice, and a disheveled guy who looked a little worse for wear and knowing what the USS Reliant prefix code was from Star Trek II, I would always choose the latter, knowing he would get the job done, hands down.
Quality of dress is absolutely NO measure for the true professionalism of an individual and I'm tired of hearing people trying to legitimize it as such.
Pimps and gangsters dress nice, too, yes?
The opposite can be true as well... in a workplace where everyone dresses casually, showing up in a business suit is rather distracting.
^^^ Exactly.
Fuck and Yes. Preach it!
While it can never replace talent, good dress is a sign of professionalism. However, it does depend on the work environment. When working on projects, it is more important to work comfortably. When presenting projects, it is important to dress.
When meeting new people, your dress is a visual way to communicate how seriously they take should take you. To use your example, if I am interviewing two similar candidates for a programming job, I will always take the one who dressed up.
I wish that we could all wear pajamas, all the time. I hate dressing up. I'm all about comfort, and so far sweats are the most comfortable clothing that I have found. I don't care about fashion at all, I see clothes as a way to keep from being naked and to keep warm. Sure I will dress up and play nice for society's sake if I'm going somewhere fancy or to a job interview, but my inner self is perpetually in pajamas. As soon as I get home from class/work I change out of my jeans and into the pjs. I don't actually wear them out in public because it's not quite acceptable unless you're on a college campus (man I miss living in the dorms), but I wish I could. I think that what you wear can say something about you, and what I would like to wear says that I am a practical person who has no time for useless expensive things.
If your fat it gonna be hard to find nice clothes to wear. I know a friend that went to Italy over the summer. They didn't have anything nice to wear for somebody that over weight. They did have nice clothes for anyone with a slim or average built. You may not want to wear jeans, because they might become to tight and uncomfortable to wear. I mostly a jeans and t-shirt type of guy. I'l try to find a nice shirts or t-shirts to wear my jeans or slacks. Being fashionable can be pricey. Most people can't afford it right now. There was a time in my life I didn't care about dressing nice or shaving. That time of my life has passed on.
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Amaris
Guest
When I feel good about myself, I am meticulously clean, with nice clean, pressed clothes, usually semi-formal, and I'm a joy to be near.
I suspect you are always a joy to be near.
You're so sweet.
It sounds like you need to fire your HR for incompetence. And having been an HR for better part of a decade, I say that with love.
You NEVER just go by what you see. People are trained how to interview now and HR's have to be able to cut through the bull shit. And this is why references and checking with previous employers is a good thing.As for clothes, people DON'T dress for anything anymore. It is about comfort with style rather than just style. However, this trend has bled over into everything now. Comfort with style is not something you show up to a formal occasion in. The last wedding I went to... jeans... people were wearing jeans... to a formal evening wedding with a sit-down platted dinner reception. I showed up in a suit of course and was the exception.