i was totally shock at the final few minutes with the return of the master in the form of a female
Dr Who 8x11- Dark Water
- Thread starter Lonemagpie
- Start date
I am definitely looking forward to the next episode. 
Loving the return of the The Master (or, now, 'The Mistress')....and the Cybermen. Too, I liked the nods to the previous Doctor Who episode 'The Invasion' from the Patrick Troughton era.
I also found it interesting that Rachel Talalay was the director of this particular episode. She is know for directing on the "Nightmare on Elm Street" films as well as "Tank Girl." (I guess it goes without saying that this episode was very 'female-centric').
Loving the return of the The Master (or, now, 'The Mistress')....and the Cybermen. Too, I liked the nods to the previous Doctor Who episode 'The Invasion' from the Patrick Troughton era.
I also found it interesting that Rachel Talalay was the director of this particular episode. She is know for directing on the "Nightmare on Elm Street" films as well as "Tank Girl." (I guess it goes without saying that this episode was very 'female-centric').
Maybe Missy escaped Gallifrey in the "Gallifrey Falls" painting. That hand with the rings near clara looks like the frame of a painting almost. And we saw in DOTD that even though they're a "slice of time", humanoids can survive inside time lord art.
Missy could have escaped when the Zygon cubes restored 8.5, 10, 11 and Clara.
Missy could have escaped when the Zygon cubes restored 8.5, 10, 11 and Clara.
Freddy Kruger was burned alive, and remained conscious beyond death, experiencing something very similar to the fate of unfortunate crematees in this episode.
The episode left a lot of things unexplained, as you'd expect with a cliffhanger.
But the conclusion I drew was that the whole thing about people remaining conscious of what happens to their physical bodies after death was nothing more than a scam to prey on people's fears.
There's no way it makes any sense. And the Doctor seemed to realize that pretty quickly, with the whole "Ah. Was he an idiot?" bit about the researcher who supposedly discovered it.
The "Don't cremate me" messages, the supposed research, the way that Dr. Chang played it up with the repeated warnings-- it's all just a scam, pseudoscience.
The reason behind it was to get people to agree to use their "armor" for dead people that's supposed to protect them from harm-- not knowing that the armor was, in fact, Cyberman armor made invisible by the dark water.
Meanwhile, the souls/minds of the deceased are pressured into completing their own conversion into Cybermen by agreeing to "delete" their emotions. The Cybermen used to take people by force; now they are taking them willingly (with the help of some deception).
It's certainly possible I missed something, but that was the understanding I came away from the episode with. I welcome corrections if I'm mistaken.
But the conclusion I drew was that the whole thing about people remaining conscious of what happens to their physical bodies after death was nothing more than a scam to prey on people's fears.
There's no way it makes any sense. And the Doctor seemed to realize that pretty quickly, with the whole "Ah. Was he an idiot?" bit about the researcher who supposedly discovered it.
The "Don't cremate me" messages, the supposed research, the way that Dr. Chang played it up with the repeated warnings-- it's all just a scam, pseudoscience.
The reason behind it was to get people to agree to use their "armor" for dead people that's supposed to protect them from harm-- not knowing that the armor was, in fact, Cyberman armor made invisible by the dark water.
Meanwhile, the souls/minds of the deceased are pressured into completing their own conversion into Cybermen by agreeing to "delete" their emotions. The Cybermen used to take people by force; now they are taking them willingly (with the help of some deception).
It's certainly possible I missed something, but that was the understanding I came away from the episode with. I welcome corrections if I'm mistaken.
Power of love (or other strong emotions) overwhelms Cyber-conversion and can cause a feedback loop. The Cybermen are learning to get people to volunteer to remove those for the safety of the whole of the Cybermen.
On the other hand, the Doctor has been very harsh with Cybermen forces. He and Rory blew the hell out of one legion in the 51st or 52nd century to get information on where Amy was being held.
He knows the Cybermen ways.
On the other hand, the Doctor has been very harsh with Cybermen forces. He and Rory blew the hell out of one legion in the 51st or 52nd century to get information on where Amy was being held.
He knows the Cybermen ways.
No that's pretty much it, although I took mental conditioning to be similar to that episode of Red Dwarf with the Polymorph (bringing out the key emotion(s) before absorbing it, although in the case of the Cybermen deleting them, so I get the 'pure' emotionless soul).
Is this the Mistress escaping from Gallifrey in The Day of the Doctor?
Ooh, interesting... I've always thought was an odd juxtaposition of body parts that didn't seem to make sense anatomically speaking, the kind of thing that wouldn't be there if somebody didn't mean it to be there.
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^Have we ever had a good look at Missy's right hand in this season? Do the rings match up?
Is this the Mistress escaping from Gallifrey in The Day of the Doctor?
Ooh, interesting... I've always thought was an odd juxtaposition of body parts that didn't seem to make sense anatomically speaking, the kind of thing that wouldn't be there if somebody didn't mean it to be there.
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No, this was addressed at the time - it's the way they did this for the 3D screening- it's Clara's hand, but played by a different person.
The Master more likely escaped through the Crack on Trenzalore - or indeed simply nipped into one of the Doctor's TARDISes when they were in the barn.
Also, as for forward planning, we know that Gomez was cast in a role created for her after auditioning for another role - which implies the Master was probably going to be male until they decided they wanted her.
Agree about waiting and seeing for Gomez. However, Coleman has been brilliant this season and continued that with the current episode.
This episode was slow to get where it was going, but not terribly slow. In fact, it did build the tension. However, we'll have to see where it's going for the final grade. It's hard to see what Missy's plans are but I think that'll make or break the story.
Mr Awe
Having watched Dark Water twice again with no problems with it, I have to conclude that, yep, my issue is the reveal to the faux mystery. If they'd just said "Michelle Gomez has been cast as the new Master" from the start, I'd have been perfectly OK. Well, still irritated by some of the cheap laughs, but that's nothing.
The Capaldi/Gomes chemistry is great- I hope they keep it.
The Capaldi/Gomes chemistry is great- I hope they keep it.
Yup, or walking around in a tin can killing innocent people.
Once you are ash it would be a lot more freedom, spread out over a woodland park area or kept warm in a urn at home.
I think the implication though is that it's unsettling to think that loved ones can still feel suffering once they pass, which is not a nice idea. But clearly this is just a deception on behalf of the Mistress anyway.
Agreed. The big mistake was trying to milk the mystery for the season. If they had made it a mystery for an episode, with the reveal in the next episode, that would've been better. Or, maybe just at the end of Gomez' first episode.
At any rate, the mystery wasn't worthy of a season long arc. Any reveal was bound to be a let down.
Mr Awe
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
I don't have a problem with Time Lords being able to regenerate into different sexes, nor am I one of the closed-minded people who are opposed to the Doctor someday regenerating as a woman. In fact, I was all for it when the announcement was made that Smith was leaving the role, provided someone other than Steven Moffat wrote the show, because among his many other faults, Moffat simply doesn't know how to write credible female characters.
My issue with the "twist" ending here is the same issue I always have with Moffat. He dragged it out (within the space of the episode) far too long and by the time it was finally revealed I just didn't care. Too, it wasn't really much of a surprise beyond the obvious question (How did the Master come back after the events of "The End of Time?") and more importantly, the entire episode was completely nonsensical. a couple hundred Cybermen in water tanks right in London and the Doctor doesn't know about it?
Clara, who probably knows the most about the Doctor and his life when compared to most of the modern companions, still chooses to betray him and try to kill him (dream state or not)?
After likely being made aware of all the things the Doctor went through with Rose, Mickey, Jackie, Martha and her family, Jack, Donna and her family and all the other one-shot companions? After everything Clara herself went through with Eleven? All throughout his life as the Impossible Girl schtick?
Bullshit.
Bull fucking shit.
The whole point of the companions is that they allegedly "make him a better man" but his impact on them (and all the people he helps) is also significant. If we are to take this episode (and, really, series 8 so far) the argument can be made that whatever likeability Clara had with Eleven has been completely undone by her time with Twelve/Capaldi. She's a douchebag now.
Meanwhile, Cybermen are stomping around London (again) and nobody seems to mind?
Now, granted, it's only part one of three episodes so I'm sure there's some "clever" way Moffat has figured out to write himself out of this mess, but I was simply not impressed nor surprised. What was the deal with all those post-it notes at the beginning? What was the "bad news" Clara was going to give to Danny? Just when you think they telegraph too much (i.e. who Melody Pond is in "A Good Man Goes to War") they outdo themselves in how they revealed Danny was killed. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
Finally, as I've thought on it after a night's rest, I'm not altogether convinced "Missy" really is The Master. It could well be Moffat, in a singular fit of brilliance, is actually trolling us and that this is a red herring cliffhanger. I'd be quite impressed if that turns out to be the case but I'm also well-prepared after the past three seasons for it to just be more "Gee whiz cool!" crap from Moffat.
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doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Yet another plot point Moffat introduces that he then later ignores. But let's not forget, he's clever!
Again, they'll open at the snap of his fingers... if they're unlocked. And let's face it... it's rare that the Doc bothers to actually lock the doors. Heck, it isn't that uncommon for him to walk away from the TARDIS leaving the door open behind him. In this case at least, Moffat has ignored nothing.
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Really we don't know how it would have played out if it was real. Very likely they Doctor would have let Clara destroy the keys either way, then just opened the doors are had an 8th key hidden, or, even, that TARDIS opening up for him of her own accord. Yet he was letting Clara know she has no power, no threat, over him.
